Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#228: Martín Céspedes (Dancer and Choreographer) (pt. 1 of 2)
Today we released part 1 of our interview with dancer and theatrical choreographer Martín Céspedes. He has performed on Broadway tours of shows such as Man of La Mancha, The King and I, and South Pacific. He’s also danced at the Kennedy Center with the Washington National Opera, as well as in concert performances with Earth, Wind and Fire and The Bee Gees. As a choreographer his credits include musicals at Porthouse Theatre, Cleveland Musical Theatre, the Great Lakes Theater and the St. Louis Repertory Theater. If you have an interest in working professionally in dance and theatre, you'll want to hear Martín's positive message and approach to arts entrepreneurship!
In this episode: Ever wondered how a professional dancer transitions into choreography? Join us as we chat with Martín Céspedes, a renowned dancer, theatrical choreographer, and arts entrepreneur with an impressive resume, and find out what it takes to make it in the world of choreography and theatre production.
Discover how Martín navigated the challenges and triumphs of his fascinating career, from his early days in New York City to working on big-ticket projects like feature films and masterclasses. Martín also shares valuable insights on the importance of unions like the Stage Directors and Choreographers Society (SDC) in ensuring fair pay and benefits for artists, and how personal relationships can lead to exciting opportunities in the industry. Don't miss this captivating conversation with a true master of his craft!
Show Notes: https://www.artsentrepreneurshippodcast.com/episodes/228-martin-cespedes-dancer-and-choreographer-pt-1-of-2
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heiss and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hello podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heiss.
Nick Petrella:And I'm Nick Petrella. Martín Céspedes is joining us today. He's a professional dancer and theatrical choreographer who has performed on Broadway tours of shows such as Man of La Mancha, the King and I and South Pacific. He's also danced at the Kennedy Center with the Washington National Opera, as well as in concert performances with Earth, wind and Fire and the Bee Gees. As a choreographer, his credits include musicals at Porthouse Theater, cleveland Musical Theater, the Great Lakes Theater and the St Louis Repertory Theater. Martin is a proud member of the Stage Directors and Choreographers Society and the Actors' Equity Association. Glad you could spend time with us today, martin.
Martín Céspedes:Hey, this is going to be fun. It's going to be a good time.
Nick Petrella:Excellent. Let's begin by having you tell us where you're from and when you started to dance professionally.
Martín Céspedes:I'm from New York City. I grew up on 21st and 8th Avenue, to be exact, on the west side of Manhattan, and I started dancing out of elementary school. There was a program that was for kids, believe it or not, and I got plucked. I mean, plymouth Rock landed on me as opposed to I landed.
Martín Céspedes:So it was like I got picked and this guy named Jacques Timbois saw me and that's where it all began. He said he had us doing these drills running across the gymnasium and all that. And he just looked at us. He was the principal dancer with American Ballet Theater and in films like Carousel. He was six foot one incredible prince of a guy. And he saw me and said you have some potential. Why don't you have your mom bring you to Lincoln Center and have you dance? So yeah, i did it in hiding for a long time. I mean, i had my tights hidden in my coat the whole bit. But I started pretty young and then from there it just moved on.
Andy Heise:How many shows would you say that you've choreographed at this point?
Martín Céspedes:Well, wow, that's a fabulous question, You know.
Andy Heise:I'm asking because I was reading your, looking at your list, i found a list somewhere on the website and I'm sure it's not comprehensive, and I was thoroughly impressed by those shows. So do you have any idea?
Martín Céspedes:I don't. I started really choreographing stuff and, believe it or not, in 1976, i was doing stuff at that age And professionally in 1977, i was on a show believe it or not, it was a disco show that was called Dance Fever out of Hollywood And I was there in 78 and 79 and you had people like Eric Estrada, melville Moore, olivia Newton-John as judges And it was very surreal because it was Merv Griffin Studios and I had choreographed my own routine for my partner and me at the time. So I'm going to say, if I you know, i asked my partner and she said you know that list goes on. You probably hundreds and hundreds of shows I think I've directed now like 50, like over 50 shows that I've directed and choreographed, you know, and some more. So it's a long list.
Andy Heise:This is a huge list And with that many different shows, how do you continue to find inspiration for every show, or is it kind of a balance of inspiration and just kind of get the job done, sort of?
Martín Céspedes:approach. You know it's this fire in the belly. For me It's the process, it's the timeline that I have to. You know I love working with the wolves of the clock, you know, at my ankles I love being able to challenge myself working in a different environment, you know. Whether it's the stage is different, the sets are creatively challenging for you at times. You know, how am I gonna have this guy dance on a bar in a scene in a film, you know. So I love the challenges And, quite honestly, that process gets excited every time I read that script, if I get a script that you know, especially lately I've been getting wonderful scripts, you know, sent to me and wonderful projects. So I don't think I've. You know, i just simply wouldn't be there anymore if I wasn't as happy as I am. I'm still. I'm still that kid, you know, sleeping on the fire escape watching West Side Story, you know.
Nick Petrella:That's great. When did you change your focus from dancing to theatrical choreography, or have you always done both concurrently?
Martín Céspedes:I've always done both. And you know, my friend called me, and he's a television actor and he said you know, if you get the nod to get back on stage and do eight shows a week, could you do it? And I said, the pleasure I have of being in that condition almost takes the pain away. You know, there's other challenges, there's other. You know, it's like being able to turn the lens and now me paint from the outside in as opposed to being part of the paint, you know. So it's really. That's good. I don't miss it because I feel like I'm. When I'm in the studio with these young actors and they're flying through space, i don't feel any different. You know It's a Peter Pan thing, maybe, you know, i don't miss it as much, i really don't. Yeah.
Andy Heise:Did you have any mentors who helped you find your way as a dancer choreographer? director?
Martín Céspedes:Well, you know, not really what I did have was I was always the young cat in the room, the young guy, and I was in there with you know, academy Award winner, tony winner, emmy winner, grammy winners, and I mean you know you could see my whole back wall, is all you know. All these guys I worked with and they became mentors in each show because I watched how they rehearsed, i watched that they always brought a head full of ideas. They became part of the collaborative process And I gotta say you know my parents instilled that. You know that immigrant ethic that they came from, that you gotta outwork the room and you gotta represent and you gotta bring as much to the game. You know being on time is not good enough, you have to be beyond prepared. So that pressure was always there at times And thank goodness that work ethic is as well. Yeah, for sure.
Nick Petrella:So you worked on stage. You've been in concerts, as I said earlier, with Earth, wind and Fire. You've been on TV. Does the venue size you're in determine how you use this space when dancing or working on choreography And, if so, how?
Martín Céspedes:Absolutely. For instance, the Hannah Theater is called a thrust. That means you have audience on three sides So your choreography almost has to. You know you can't. You almost have to showcase it to the angle. You have to play what it's called quasi. You have to bend all the angles so that wraps around. Some venues are just percenium, so they're just a box that you're looking at and it's pretty flat If you're doing something on the round or alley staging, alley staging is literally audience on both sides And it looks like a runway And I did a 1930s called Wild Party show there. So you almost have to work both sides of the audience and the choreography has to always evolve and change so that you're seeing it. So no one's getting cheated out of seeing.
Martín Céspedes:You know the storytelling. You're kind of that, you know. I don't want to say you're, you're trapped in that space, but you're not. You almost have to paint from a different angle and you almost have to approach it as if the audience is around you, as opposed to film, which I just finished working on this film and the difference there is that camera hovers and it moves. you could be dancing straight out. Let's say I'm dancing toward you, but there's two guys running with handheld cameras all over the place And all you can do is pray that the editing is going to be gorgeous. So you're at the back of that camera and that editor.
Nick Petrella:Well, you know this may be think of a follow-up question What's your process or approach to choreography And meaning what helps you determine how the dancers move?
Martín Céspedes:Basically, it's the narrative I have to almost inhabit. I have to get in the hide of that actor. I have to figure out what he's trying to say, what the storytelling is about. Great example to that is I was doing West Side Story in 1988. Bb Noworth played Anita and she was coming off of Cheers. She was working on Cheers and she came in. She was a spitfire, but the director was Jerome Robbins' assistant And he grabbed me once and he told me he looked right at me because I was this young brash guy that was going to add more to the choreography.
Martín Céspedes:I was going to do Jiu Jitsu, the choreography and add more turns And he looked right at me. He goes you know, either you tell me a story or you get out of the room. And he had me leave the room And I can remember sitting in the hallway and this coffee percolator all I can hear was the coffee percolator and thinking man, i lost this, i'm never going to work in this business again. You know I'm out And Jerome Robbins' people had the power to dismiss you and fire you. They had cameras that they would send tapes back to New York for his approval. And I remember that Richard Caceras had passed away shortly after that. But that story about don't get in the way of the story. Tell me the story. That's what you're here to do. The narrative is king. You're an instrument of the storytelling.
Nick Petrella:So you got an education that day.
Martín Céspedes:Yeah, i sure did, i sure did. But that's one of those things that today I tell every young guy, every young person that I work with don't get in the way of the story. I don't care about the acrobatics of you kicking your earrings off. Tell me what the story is about. So that kind of you know it did. It was an education. It's a lifelong credo I live with now, you know.
Nick Petrella:It did turn out okay, right.
Martín Céspedes:It turned out wonderfully And you know what Those were. Pearls now And I miss him very much, but he gave me a master class in 60 seconds.
Andy Heise:Yeah Well, creativity requires some boundaries, right? So, whether it's the stage or the story or whatever, creating within those boundaries is what enables that creative process.
Martín Céspedes:Absolutely, absolutely. And I think for me also, casting is king. It's who you bring into the game. You know, who are you going to be in that foxtel with for two weeks or six weeks, and if you and it's happened where you cast some of the wrong energy and it's going to shift the room, so it's who's in that room with you and who's going to keep calm under fire, and that's for me, it's casting. I'm as good as the team around me, you know, and that's pretty much the actors as well.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, i imagine it shifts the room, but it also shifts outside the room. Yeah, when you work rehearsals and interacting with people at dinners.
Martín Céspedes:Absolutely, and it's on tour. That's surprisingly. That's one of the things producers and casting agents do. Is They look at who's able to do eight shows a week, get on a bus on Monday, go to the airport and go to another city 26 cities in a year's time. You don't know where you're at anymore. You know the same set. You don't know Maya, st Louis and Maya and Reno. People can be moody, so they really look for that demeanor And for those people that are gonna be calm. And you know because it is. It's in the negative space where theater lives. It's not when you're on stage, it's in the hotel room or walking down the street. You know you gotta know how to have some really calm own meditational people. That you know.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, if you maybe think of a story, i was this many years ago, not gonna mention the place or the tour, but it was a national tour And you know, they bring in basically a rhythm section and then they hire everyone else right When you're playing So I was playing percussion on this The music director gets up basically says, look and I'll clean it up for you. I just got off of a bus. I don't wanna read this more than once. Let's go right And you can just see. It's like oh, that set the tone.
Martín Céspedes:Yeah, it is, and you know he's probably been on that bus for quite some time. You know Exactly, traveling is a monster, you know, especially, you know, on the road.
Andy Heise:And you did that for a while, right, you're currently based out of the Cleveland Ohio area, but there was a time where you were doing some national touring right.
Martín Céspedes:I was doing a lot of national touring, i think, like for like for national tours in whole, but it's the long. You know, those long tours, the tours that just seemed to go on And on. Yeah, i was in King and I, i did the national tour of King and I and that ran for over a year. West Side Story, south Pacific, you know, and smaller regional tours So, but the long ones are, you know, it's like the circus wrinkling brothers come into town, you know, with like eight buses.
Martín Céspedes:You know eight trucks full of sats, and you know, and you see the process, You learn a lot about watching the show mechanically. You know how the, how the sausage is made, so to speak. You know, you see that behind the scenes and how many people are behind those scenes making you look good, you know, it's one of those things that you have an appreciation for, the process itself, the technicians, the creatives, you know. But yeah, i'm happy to say that I have no desire to get back on the road and I love living where I'm living, i love having, you know, the calmness, and I get in my car. You know, the furthest I'm gonna drive is 50 miles to Kent to rehearse for Port House at the moment, you know so.
Andy Heise:Yeah, sure. So at what point did you decide to kind of stay put? Was there something that happened, or was it just you're tired of touring there?
Martín Céspedes:I think I was. I think I was tired of touring and I think what I wanted to do is establish myself more on the other side of the table production-wise. You know, my union SDC union has helped me a lot with that. Because they were saying, man, you have incredible credits, he goes, why don't you start painting it now? You know you've worked for some of the great people in the business, why don't you start creating your own legacy here now? because you could do it. And so they gave me, you know, they gave me some inspiration and I thought, man, it's fun to be able to do a show and have the flexibility to move to another venue or to another theater and start a new project, as opposed to have to live in that theater for the next 12 weeks or so. Sure.
Nick Petrella:You know, that kind of touches upon the next question. So you've been in the business for many years. Do you get gigs because of personal relationships you've built, or do you have to submit materials? How does that work?
Martín Céspedes:It's all recommendation now for me If I'm really after something that I really challenge myself to do, such as work on an opera or work on a film. I'll reach out to certain people through friends of mine who say you know, this is the casting agent for Dancing with the Stars. They may need a choreographer for next season. You know, look into that, send them. You know, but most of it is coming. You know, i got a feature film offer basically because I had worked with this young actor who played Seymour in in uh oh my God, I can't think.
Martín Céspedes:Little Shop of Horrors. Yeah, and he is now Keith Gerchak. He is now a director and writer in Hollywood And he said I just got green lit for this film That's going to film all around Cleveland. And would you be able to storyboard a dream sequence in a bar over by the West Side Market for Dennis Haysburg? and Dennis Haysburg, wow, was Pedro Serrano in Major League and he the voice of all state, and he played the president with Keeper. Well, he was at, he was in my house and we were working together before I introduced him to the sixth dancer that danced with him. So that came from a show I worked on in the 90s. All of a sudden I get that call. So it's like, you know, i don't know.
Nick Petrella:Is that currently filming or is it It?
Martín Céspedes:just it just wrapped and and it's going to I think it's going to premiere at the I forgot what film festival. I saw the trailer and it's pretty amazing. Who else is that? Who else is Martin Sheen? It's a list of people that are in it. Tom Hanks was supposed to do it originally but he during the pandemic, when they were working on it, he had to leave. But it's like an all-star cast. It's a. It's definitely a postcard to Cleveland.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, we'll have to link to that. Yes, link to the trailer.
Andy Heise:Absolutely. So it's all the work you do, then sounds like it's mostly like a independent contractor. So just contract, contract, or have you or have you ever worked as an employee for, for a company?
Martín Céspedes:No, it's all the theaters. For instance, if Great Lakes hires me or Playhouse Square or any theater like that, it's an SDC contract, you know so. It's an independent contractor. Yeah, i just finished a series of masterclasses at Hawken Yesterday. They wrapped with young high school kids and they wanted you know, they hired me to come in and work, to teach them Broadway choreography, so to speak. You know, from different shows And and that was an independent contract, you know so, but most of them are like that because they have to go through the union.
Andy Heise:Okay, so that's why, and so does the union, set, you know, scale, pay or whatever for that type of that, for a gig that is whatever, whatever parameters are on that show.
Martín Céspedes:They do, they. They sometimes go from the ticket, the ticket prices and the seating and they kind of calculate what the what, the base, you know what the base salary for that is and what goes into what goes into pension and help Cause it's got, you know, you got to care of that now these days too. So that goes back to that. Yeah, yeah.
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