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#229: Martín Céspedes (Dancer and Choreographer) (pt. 2 of 2)
•Nick Petrella and Andy Heise // Martín Céspedes
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This week on the podcast is part 2 of our interview with dancer and theatrical choreographer Martín Céspedes. He has performed on Broadway tours of shows such as Man of La Mancha, The King and I, and South Pacific. He’s also danced at the Kennedy Center with the Washington National Opera, as well as in concert performances with Earth, Wind and Fire and The Bee Gees. As a choreographer his credits include musicals at Porthouse Theatre, Cleveland Musical Theatre, the Great Lakes Theater and the St. Louis Repertory Theater. If you have an interest in working professionally in dance and theatre, you'll want to hear Martín's positive message and approach to arts entrepreneurship!
In this episode: Imagine stepping into the world of renowned choreographer Martín Céspedes, where art and entrepreneurship merge seamlessly. With our conversation revealing the secrets to his award-winning choreography, you'll find yourself immersed in his meticulous research process, influenced by music and the inspirations he draws from genres of dance to enhance his craft. Martín also talks about his associations with the Stage Directors and Choreographers Society and the Actors' Equity Association, shedding light on the crucial role they play in his profession.
In the latter half, the spotlight turns to Martín's personal journey and the profound influence the classic musical West Side Story had on his career. You'll discover how this iconic show continues to shape modern theater trends. As we venture beyond the stage, Martín shares his experiences choreographing for other platforms such as animation and film, and discusses the role of different unions in these areas. We conclude our talk with his invaluable advice for budding artists and entrepreneurs, and a thoughtful discussion on making arts more accessible to a wider audience. Get ready for an enlightening and inspiring ride through Martín's world of dance, theater, and art entrepreneurship.
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:
Hello podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise.
Nick Petrella:
And I'm Nick Petrella. Cespadis is joining us today. He's a professional dancer and theatrical choreographer who has performed on Broadway tours of shows such as Man of La Mancha, the King and I and South Pacific. He's also danced at the Kennedy Center with the Washington National Opera, as well as in concert performances with Earth, wind and Fire and the Bee Gees. As a choreographer, his credits include musicals at Porthouse Theater, cleveland Musical Theater, the Great Lakes Theater and the St Louis Repertory Theater. Martín is a proud member of the Stage Directors and Choreographers Society and the Actors' Equity Association. Glad you could spend time with us today, .
Martín Céspedes:
Hey, this is going to be fun. It's going to be a good time.
Nick Petrella:
Do you have any management or do this all yourself?
Martín Céspedes:
I'm doing it now. I had you know years ago I did, but now I'm, you know it's going so well And I think I've built such great connections with artistic directors and theaters that you know I just make a call and say, hey, you know what are you doing next season, or you want me to come in And I think also, you know it's been a really great run lately. you know the Cleveland Critics Awards have given me for the last five years best choreographer, five or six years, and I didn't even notice until someone had come up to me and told me I saw your name listed again And I thought, wow, you know it's. I guess this little electronic thing in front of me is getting around or something you know, the space age.
Andy Heise:
And so this is. This is I don't know anything about the S. Sorry it was called the SDC.
Martín Céspedes:
Yeah, it's a stage. Directors and choreographers.
Andy Heise:
Gotcha Okay, and that's a national union.
Martín Céspedes:
It's national, it's all the broad, it's a West Coast, east Coast, it's all the Broadway people are all SDC directors and choreographers. Okay.
Nick Petrella:
Gotcha Is that that's separate from equity.
Martín Céspedes:
Yes, equity is the sister, their sister or union Gotcha. And when I was working on a Kennedy center, agmo was the union there. It's like the opera union Gotcha, yeah Yeah.
Nick Petrella:
I've worked in musicians union for many years, but yeah, sorry to say up on everything.
Andy Heise:
Yeah, right, And so to become a member of that union. what's that look like?
Martín Céspedes:
You have to pretty much apply and send credits and then they do their. You know homework and pay your. You pay your fee and you know And for me it was always an honor to you know I get my union book that has an article or it has everybody listed on the front and back and you're next to anyone with C Cespidus and you're next to like Tony winners and you know fine directors and fine choreographers. So you know I was very happy to make that shift.
Nick Petrella:
But yeah, well, like you said earlier, you know it's the ecosystem. You're helping those Tony winners Absolutely Like choreographing what they do. Absolutely. What do you do differently now as a choreographer than when you first started?
Martín Céspedes:
Well, the process hasn't really changed. I used to. I was a research I'm still a research nut and I used to go to Lincoln Center. You can go put on headphones and see any show, any vintage show that they have in their library there. That's before phones, now it's, you know, youtube For me, the research. You know the director has a script. You know the musical director has a score. Choreographers have nothing. We have an idea. We come in with like, okay, how am I going to tell that story with this human being? You know so it's a challenge for us. You know we again, and it's in casting. You know so I storyboard. I have a rehearsal studio in my loft space here and I work here, and it's a solitary. I live like a monk, you know. I'm like I disappear into the music, you know, and if it's a cool dance arrangement or if it's 1950s jazz or I'm a music guy. I love that. That absolutely inspires my work.
Nick Petrella:
And so do you. Do you look at all genres like? I can remember as a kid seeing the Nicholas Brothers first time, right. It's just fascinating. So do you look at tap, modern ballet, do you look at everything or do you specialize in?
Martín Céspedes:
Oh, the art of musical theater dance. theater dance is comprised of every style and, believe me, it's sharpening your sword to such a degree that you know you learn it all. you learn Latin, you learn jazz, you learn now hip hop, you know something that looks like Hamilton. you know it's all hip hop oriented, but you study, you keep sharpening your sword And I think, as a choreographer, you know, if I have to call in a young hip hop guy to break this down to me because I really got to be able to translate, i'll bring them in and we'll work together so that I can learn that language.
Nick Petrella:
It's totally So so let's let me ask another question. So you'd mentioned the king and I and I'm just thinking, if you're looking, say there's a new production and they want to actually incorporate dance right, say tie or something associated with the gamelan or something, yeah, if you don't know that, do you, do you just go and research that, or do you bring someone else in? How does that work?
Martín Céspedes:
I absolutely research it. You know, if I'm doing once on this island and it's all Haitian, african style, i will learn it. You know, and a lot of times I have. You know there's so many shows that I've that I've learned so many different styles and so many different choreographers styles. You know, whether it's Bob Fossey, jerome Robbins, michael Kidd, and I'm doing guys and dolls. I'll look at Michael Kidd's choreography which he did seven brides for seven brothers and it's some of the most athletic, dynamo stuff you know and I'll learn from from the masters you know as much as I can. You know it'll be my stamp on it, it'll be my choreography, but it'll definitely be inspired by that choreographer.
Andy Heise:
Yeah, So I came across a video of you taking boxing lessons. Was that part of your research process or is that something else?
Martín Céspedes:
No, well, you know, I was a fight director and I assisted BH Barry And BH Barry was the guy who did all the battle sequences for the movie Glory with Matthew Broderick. He's doing on Broadway now. What is he doing? He's doing a show on Broadway. Now. I can't remember, But I was his assistant. So we had to learn sword hand to hand combat And I always love stepping out of a comfort zone and learning a new craft all the time. But I was hanging out that day with a decorated he was a decorated detective and he was a boxing coach And I said, can I call him to Jim and let's work? you know So it's always. You know, it's always testing the boundaries, you know, or going into something that is different for you. But I've always been fascinated, even from the Bruce Lee days, man, You know.
Nick Petrella:
So Yeah, So do you study martial arts too? Because everything goes differently. Jiu-Jitsu, right Boxing, it's different.
Martín Céspedes:
Yeah, i did, i did back in the day, i loved it, and to me it's you know what's the old saying man, forgive a sword to a guy who can't dance. you know, so I was. you know, i was always. you know, swinging nunchucks once in a while. It's all choreography, you know.
Nick Petrella:
That's cool That you've worked in a few states. Was it difficult to get started when you moved to a new city And what did you do to start working?
Martín Céspedes:
I basically, if I, if I, if I was usually invited to, for instance, Great Lakes Theatre Festival, does they have venues in out in Lake Tahoe and in Boise Indi, Boise, Idaho. So if the show was going to go to different venues, that's how I got there Most of the time I'd get a call from an artistic director same thing in St Louis and said we're doing the Fantastics, Are you available? So I I was lucky to get invited to go to these new venues, Knowing I had the gig on the other side. Yeah.
Andy Heise:
Martín, is there a show that comes to mind that maybe was influential on your life?
Martín Céspedes:
Definitely one single show West Side Story. I saw it as a kid and and they showed it again on CBS and It absolutely changed my life. My game plan was there. I mean, i saw guys that looked like me jumping around the streets dressed like me Yeah, i have my mom's photo album with pictures of them at parties and it looks like the cast of West Side Story, this Puerto Rican family, and it looks like the 1960s same shark skin suits, the works, and, and not only that, it was.
Martín Céspedes:
It was so dimensional because the TV was in black and white, this little TV with the You know with it, with the rabbit ears and aluminum foil to get you know, to get good reception, and Outside that window that the TV was near the table was the same streets that look like You know this, the scenes from West Side Story.
Martín Céspedes:
So I was watching it in dimension and I thought you know what these guys are great, they're tough, they look like me and they're dancing like, like athlete, you know, and that changed my life. I thought I had hope then I could still be You know me and dance, you know, and and not be made fun of. But that show changed my life and to think, fast forward. I'm doing it with some, with Tony winners, you know, and I'm around people who know the original director, choreographer, and on my wall behind me is, you know, george Chakras signed picture of him in the original movie. Yeah, so it's one of those things that you go full circle. But that was that. That was the jewel in the crown for me, was that show?
Nick Petrella:
Do you see yourself as a role model for other kids who maybe grew up with a similar back? absolutely.
Martín Céspedes:
I mean yesterday I spent, i was in a room of, you know, of kids that I think they're. They live on an island by themselves because they love theater and music so much and it's a pretty, you know, it's a. The institution is pretty driven by the IQ. You know the engineer, the rocket scientist there, you know. But these kids are, you know, in this room, by themselves, dreaming Above those circumstances. And for me, anytime I can inspire them, anytime There's a Kid that looks at me and go, you know you're, you're a male role figure, role model, you dance, you do theater, you've done all these things and You're happy, you know. So no, if I can inspire any of these kids and and I try, i really do that's my way, that's my legacy. So when we were talking about you know what is your notion of success? for me It's being able to elevate some of its dreams to reality and to help them. That's that's pretty much it. Paying it forward, yeah.
Andy Heise:
What do you see happening in Musical theater these days? so you know the time of this recording phantom just closed on Broadway, which is like 35 year show, and Where do you? what do you think the next sort of trend in musical theater is either on Broadway or off-Broadway touring acts, whatever well.
Martín Céspedes:
I think that a lot of the shows now are starting to realize that They're getting so big and so expensive to produce that they have to start. The storytelling has to go back to the nucleus, to less is more. More. Economical movement says a lot more than running about chandeliers, hydraulics. Special effects are for film and for Marvel comics and stuff like that, and I think that theater is realizing that the prices of tickets now are just getting so astronomical because they got to pay for all these special effects. So I know that smaller venues and smaller theaters are are going backwards now, and I mean for stuff I love storytelling without all the you know, the acrobatics, all the stuff that people need because they need to be so stimulated. So I think the trend is going back to jukebox musicals, stuff that features the composers, you know, and and and it's more about that storytelling then exploding chandeliers and stuff like that. You know hydraulics here and there, cirque du Soleil.
Nick Petrella:
Have you choreographed for other mediums? because, i mean, i imagine you could choreograph for animation.
Martín Céspedes:
I will. You know, gene Kelly did it well. He did it fabulously when he danced with the mouse. You know, when he danced with Tom or Jerry, i think it was Tom And yeah, i mean, a film isn't the new frontier for me.
Martín Céspedes:
I mean, i fell in love with the process of having five takes and not doing live theater and having to retake and go, hey, let's do it again, let's get it right, let's do it again. And having all these incredible technicians around you with a camera this close to your face you know, inches from your face and you have to tell that story with that eyebrow in a dance. So it to me that just opened this vista of opportunities and that's kind of. I've already put my feelers out for a project, a Netflix project, that they had mentioned if I would be interested, and I said, listen, if you guys green light it, i'm in. You know, because it was a different experience and I was stepping outside of my stage comfort zone. I'm in a room with everyone that's. You know, that's moving the world around the dancers as well as them moving the world around them.
Andy Heise:
Yeah, for sure. So going back to sort of the union thing is that is the STC contract stuff. Is that still at play when you do film? No, it's on stage.
Martín Céspedes:
No, that's the. that's a different union, altogether Different. Yeah, it is, yeah, yeah, and it's. it's. oh my God, i can't even remember it now, but it's a sad screen actors guilt.
Andy Heise:
Okay, so yeah, yeah, yeah, Gotcha, yeah, it's just interesting to think about. You know, i teach at a university, so I don't, and we're not unionized here either, so I don't. Most of my daily existence goes without even thinking about a union. However it's, it's evident that it's pretty persistent in your day to day operating. It is.
Martín Céspedes:
In the theater world. It's your, it's a domino, because now you're looking at the writers union that are on strike now and and it affects the writers on Broadway, it affects the writers and TV and it comes and it has the. You know it has a trickle effect on on shows that you're going to participate in because no new ones are going to be written for a while. You know right.
Andy Heise:
Yeah, and that's that's happening today, and those shows would be whatever next year, right two years down the road. Absolutely.
Nick Petrella:
I just realized something that didn't come up in the podcast and I don't remember seeing it in the research. but were you apprenticing or did you go through? I was conservatory training I went.
Martín Céspedes:
I was apprenticing Many people. I mean, the first person that I apprentice is Dorothy Daner, who is Blythe Daner sister, who's Gwyneth Paltrow's aunt. She's an opera director, choreographer, broadway choreographer and I was her assistant for years. I was also John Kenley's assistant, the great John Kenley producer. I was driving him at age 80 to rehearsals and running his dance calls BH Berry. I mean that's the first thing that I just lucked out because I would ask him. I said, do you need an assistant on this? Because I was that interested about how the process is done. And all that has served me now because I was at the University of Mastery with these guys because they're not around anymore, but they were the pioneers of theater, television and dance. So, yeah, i mean I lucked out with working with them. There's a list, a long list.
Andy Heise:
Well, , we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions, And our first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an art entrepreneur?
Martín Céspedes:
To figure out what. How do you define, how do you measure what your notion of success is, how much money you make, how many awards you've won, how many hits you get on a platform. Figure that out. I know what my definition is, but I say that to young, young bloods. Figure that out now, it will make your path a lot easier going forward.
Nick Petrella:
What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?
Martín Céspedes:
Well, i think we have a fabulous tool. I mean, my Instagram thing is, my Instagram platform is nothing but theatrical rehearsal behind the scenes. You know it's, it's and it's passed on. I have friends now in Russia, australia, who follow the work and say, Hey, what are you doing? You know what's your next project And I think we have the technology now to put it out there to the world.
Andy Heise:
Yeah, lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've ever been given?
Martín Céspedes:
Tell that story again. Richard Casaris, the late Richard Casaris. Tell me the story, or or get out of the room. You know, um, keep, yeah, just, and sharpen, sharpen the sword. You're always a student. Keep sharpening the blade, that's. That's all I can say about that.
Nick Petrella:
Yeah, well, that's a great way to end. This has really been a fun interview and I personally learned a lot, and I know the listeners are going to feel the same.
Martín Céspedes:
Well, I'm honored. I cannot wait to see this or hear this rather Sure. Thanks a lot, . Thank you.
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