Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#237: R. Scott French (Fashion, Public Relations) (pt. 2 of 2)
This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with fashion expert and serial entrepreneur, R. Scott French. He has extensive experience in all areas of the fashion industry, from concept, design, marketing, wholesale and retail sales, and production. In 2009, Scott co-founded a media company to organize the world’s fashion events into a single interactive port so fashion professionals can interact directly with event organizers. In 2020, he co-founded VERY New York, a public relations and events company. Scott is also a lecturer at the Parsons School of Design and serves on numerous advisory boards in the fashion industry. You'll want to hear this interview as we cover a variety of topics relevant to fashion and all arts fields.
In this episode:
Walking away from the traditional path, Scott and his co-founder, Mai Vu, decided to make social media strategies their core focus. But not just any strategies, they harnessed the power of events, providing a unique perspective on the creative process. They allow their audience to see the transformative nature of events in the fashion industry, and how these can lead to unexplored avenues of innovation.
Teaming up with someone who shares the same business ethos as you can be a game changer. Scott and Vu, a dynamic duo, will tell you all about it. Their shared values and harmony have allowed them to navigate through the business landscape without disputes. They have learned how to manage client expectations, maintain a strong work ethic, and even turn down unrealistic demands. All while preserving their reputation and maintaining the quality of work. As we wrap up with Scott, we touch on the importance of mentorship and collaboration for the success of a venture. So, tune in and get ready to be inspired by some entrepreneurial wisdom.
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy.
Nick Petrella:Heise and I'm Nick Petrella. Today we have Scott French with us on the podcast. He has extensive experience in all areas of the fashion industry, from concept design, marketing, wholesale and retail sales and production. In 2009, he co-founded a media company to organize the world's fashion events into a single interactive port so fashion professionals can interact directly with event organizers. Scott is a lecturer at the Parsons School of Design, serves on numerous advisory boards in the fashion industry and has many more accolades that you can read about on the link in the show notes. Thanks for being with us, scott.
R. Scott French:Thanks for having me.
Andy Heise:So I noticed you started very in May of 2020, which was sort of when we started to realize that the pandemic was going to be here for a while. What was your motivation to start the company at that time with your co-founder?
R. Scott French:Mai Vu was my co-founder and she and I worked together in a previous agency. Everyone thought I was absolutely lost my mind in the middle of the whole world, shutting down with no end in sight. We left in March what 15th, I think we walked out of the office, we watered the plants and walked out for two weeks. We backed, no problem, and here it was like June 2, 2022, a full three months later no end in sight. I always knew that I wanted to have my own agency in some way, someday. As long as I've been in the world of public relations, I knew that, which I was at another agency for seven years.
R. Scott French:part of starting my own thing, so I made a bid to take over that agency. It didn't go successfully. The owner wanted to maintain it, so it's fine. And at the same time, I wasn't being paid. And the biggest fear that I had is having a family and a wife and two children. My wife has a job as well, but I was definitely a part of the economic equation was I didn't want to start something for fear of failing when I have these other lives depending on my income.
R. Scott French:Well, now, all of a sudden, if that portion of the equation is removed, where I'm not getting income, why not? And dawned on me one morning I woke up. I remember like five in the morning I woke up and I said why am I working for someone else for free? I'd work for myself for free. When am I ever going to have this opportunity again? And whenever I see an opportunity, I always have to pay attention to it. Don't always take that opportunity, but I have to at least investigate it. And that's just the nature of, I believe, entrepreneurship. So I thought, okay, I'm not able to buy that agency, I'm not getting paid by that agency. I saw a lot of flaws in the way the old business was being done, with the overhead, et cetera, et cetera. I also looked at the last three months of working remotely and I realized we're still getting the results. So the concept was proven by the pandemic that you can work remotely without all the overhead. I didn't have that fear of losing my income because the pandemic took that away from me.
R. Scott French:So Mai was in California at the time and I was in Connecticut. I woke up at like six o'clock in the morning oh my God, it's 3 am. When is she still up? I got a call and I talked to her. So I waited until 11. It was killing me.
R. Scott French:Newen wrote about it. I called her. I'm like okay, this is what I want to do, and I'll never forget her response. She said what the heck I feel like. Whatever, I'm going to tell you what the heck took you so long. I was like she was waiting around for you to come to this terms, and that was on Thursday morning, I think Thursday June 2nd. I believe it was. That afternoon I had an email set up. Friday we had a website set up. I think on Tuesday I had my first client. So literally it was like, and we completely looked at the world as it currently existed under the new reality of you know however long that lasted. If not, we knew it was going to be at least another three, four, five, maybe six months. We thought and said what can we do? What are all the ills of our past they want to correct, and how can we reinvent things? And what we found out was immediately that the clients were ready to roll. I just started calling people and boom, they started calling me right back, right away.
Nick Petrella:It was crazy. Everybody's in fire drill mode.
R. Scott French:They're on fire drill mode. And also I took away, the entire building structure was changed. The entire overhead structure was changed. What we could build had changed and it wasn't just a fiscal thing, but it was also just the way of working had changed. And everyone saw it as, wow, I'm feeling this, but you're actually demonstrating that someone else is feeling it. And we had clients within a week and I think it was like three weeks later I turned my first profit. Wow.
Nick Petrella:Now, did you have any barriers? I mean, did you like a non compete with any fire company?
R. Scott French:Yeah, I couldn't call the clients of the old agency and I did not do that. Previous owner may disagree, but it was not the case. I did not call them. I simply said here's my new contact information and that was it. And within like a few weeks I got calls back from them all like tell me about this, what's going on. Whatever, I did not direct solicit any. I did not have any. I never I had a non-complete compete from stealing the clients of that agency, but I did not. So then when I went back to quite a few of the old clients of the agency and just let them know where I was as well, some of them came forward, some of them didn't. There was no pressure.
Andy Heise:Yeah.
R. Scott French:So that's how it all began.
Nick Petrella:You're a lot more nimble.
R. Scott French:Yes.
Nick Petrella:You're gonna be more nimble than an established agency and, like you said, you don't have the Exactly Stabby structure.
R. Scott French:Yeah, and just the old confines, the confines of having a huge bottom line. You know, with 17,000 a month in rent and 10 employees with electricity bills, it's like it's a $27,000 a month Minimum.
R. Scott French:Barrier minimum every single month and I'm like that went away. That's a huge barrier to overcome. You're gonna have all that cash flow in place to pay that. It can start out that way, but with zero overhead to start. You know, $100 meant $100 in profit on this first at the beginning. Then we built up over time so that when the pandemic did, you know, come to a conclusion, we had enough of a client base that we could then add in some things like our software tracking and our e-blasting and some things that still, but still, our overhead is single digit percentages of what the old agency had.
Andy Heise:Scott, you said something that sort of struck a chord with me. You said when you see opportunities, you have to stop and give them a couple, give it a thought, like think through them. What in your mind, like what is what makes an opportunity and what is sort of your process of thinking through that, and I realized it's probably not like a okay, here's an opportunity. Now I'm gonna go through my process. It's kind of in your head but what's that look like for you?
R. Scott French:Yeah, generally, whenever I see something that sort of intrigues me or sounds a little off and by off I don't mean like off, bad, like oh, that's an interesting way of thinking about it. Or I've never seen that done that way before, whenever I, or why is this done this way? If it bothers me, I look at it. Why is this done this way? Like what is the, what is the restriction or what is the methodology that's there in place that requires to be done this way? So I say, you know, whenever I see something that says why is it done this way, or why isn't it done that way, or that's intriguing, I have to stop and think well, why haven't I seen that before?
R. Scott French:I'm out there all day long listening and paying attention and reading, and just like hearing people talk. So whenever I hear a truly unique idea or voice, I have to say let's at least investigate that. Or when I see something oh, that's a cool job, like I've learned more about that, I mean I look back. If you don't keep your doors open all the time to hearing from someone, you're gonna miss the next great opportunity. And also the world changes.
R. Scott French:When I graduated from college the internet wasn't in existence. It didn't exist. And now hearing of years later running an internet-based media company and now an internet and a cloud-based PR agency. These things are things you couldn't have thought of or fathomed 30 years ago, 20 years, even 15 years ago you couldn't have fathomed it. So whenever something comes along, I have to at least investigate it and say how does that work? Or why does that work Like? My youngest son's been trading stocks this past a few months to take a great interest in this. So whenever he comes with the idea, I'm like I've got to hear this tell me more, tell me more. I probably will never become a stock trader. I now know more about it than I did before. It's just a natural curiosity and if you turn your back on those intriguing thoughts, you're turning your back on what could just be the next great opportunity, or not.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, what do they call that? Is it first principles, thinking, I mean, you're just kind of looking at what's there and why is it that way and what can it be?
R. Scott French:It sounds like Exactly what can it be? Or how can I apply this in some way? And listen back seven years or 10 years ago now, when I was walking in the street and the way I got into the whole PR game to begin with was someone gave me an opportunity that I shouldn't have probably gotten, but they took the time to talk to me, they threw the idea out there. I said what about me? And it came out to be someone said I'm looking for this person in my agency. If you know of anyone like that, let me know. I'm like what about me? That wasn't on a Sunday. On Friday I'm on a desk. So someone took that chance with me and it changed my course of life. And ideas are the same way. Ideas are nothing more than something that a chance has to be taken on, and I've decided is that worth taking or not, or can I utilize that knowledge for some future conversation? And that's it.
Nick Petrella:Scott, you have a lot of experience creating and working on events. Why are they impactful? And should all arts and entrepreneurs not necessarily those in fashion, should they consider hosting events?
R. Scott French:Event-driven marketing, I think, is the most powerful form of marketing. At will there be a starting point of a conversation or the conclusion, the demonstration of a conversation when there's an event taking place, and by events. I just did one last week for 300 people for a Women of Impact Summit, where thought leaders got together in the. They were female thought leaders got together and just sort of talked about what, how they define impact, how they've had impact and what led them to be impactful to an audience. That's a medium-sized event for me. I've done like 550% charity dinners. I've also done 1,200 seat fashion shows and I've done eight people for dinner at an artist's studio. All of those are events. Because why are the events? Well, you got to have a message. You got to have a product to sell. That product might be information. Doesn't necessarily need to be a commodity where they actually transfer money, but that information you'll be learning about something. You have to cast that event by the attendees and then you've got to deliver on the value of prospect, what those people came to see. So I think that there's simply seeing a painting or seeing a drawing or seeing a garment hanging in a showroom doesn't give it the context of actually seeing it be created, or seeing that garment in action, walking down the runway, glamorized with the key light and the perfect light and the perfect music, and understanding exactly how that outfit can look. An event does that. The same time, an event also allows that designer or that creative person to come out and meet their audience and talk about the creative process. It's a very different situation If we had actually seen Jackson Pollock dancing on the scaffolding and seeing paint. It would be a very different connection to that art than what you see hanging in the MoMA walls and it's fascinating to me.
R. Scott French:I was at the MoMA one day and there's a woman walking around. I was so sick of hearing her say, well, I could have done that. Well, I could have done that. Why could have done that? And I was like OK. So I went up behind her. It was in Ellsworth Kelly, this little canvas with just a little bit of a crooked side to it, solid blue. And I went up and I said, but you didn't? And it just really irked me. I said but you didn't. Well, looking back now at that simplicity of an Ellsworth Kelly piece on the wall, you might not get the genius of it all, but when you have experienced that in the context of the studio or his thought process, or talked to him about why moving the canvas that way or making the solid blue and hanging on the wall, what sort of a revolutionary idea that was. It's a totally different perception or different perspective you have on that final outcome piece.
R. Scott French:So I believe that events are a really key way of expressing the creative process in exactly the vision of the creator. Now, you don't get the moment that fashion show is over. You never, ever get to control the way your clothing is digested. Once again, the moment that gallery exhibit is over, you never get to control that once again, ever again, because it's in the person's homes and it might be mixed with some God-awful chintzy sofa or it might be mixed with, like a mid-century modern period piece that really, truly complements the painting, but you don't get to control that. Messaging it longer An event allows you to do that. So that's why I highly recommend a properly curated and executed event as part of the brand message will go a long way in achieving the public-facing perceptions or the public's perceptions of what you do. Great.
Andy Heise:As we've sort of discussed here a little bit, social media is a vast and complicated marketing channel, growing faster and bigger every single day. Do you have some basic strategies that you implement with your clients that you might be willing to share with the listeners?
R. Scott French:Certainly. Yeah, social media is one of the biggest questions we get. I will say, thankfully, of late it's getting less. People are sort of fed up with it in many ways. A lot of creators are just like I can't keep up with it. It's just bigger than I can deal with. Just forget about it. Or, thanks to the greedy pockets of the Zuckerbergs and the like out there, it's becoming so promotional that people just feel like I can't compete anymore to screw it, walk away. So that's a good thing.
R. Scott French:But some information that I can give people or some advice I give clients is for one again goes back. If you can't do it well, don't do it at all. And what you do put up there, make sure it's right. So I also if you haven't begun something, make sure you begin it in a proper way by making sure you have a message, you have a method to put up to have it.
R. Scott French:You're telling a story and think of your Instagram as a. I always tell them think of the Instagram as like a magazine, think of Facebook as your newspaper, think of Twitter as your radio station. So I always say the little quick, thick hits on Twitter. Facebook is a newspaper which is a constant feed of gobbledygote coming up and Instagram is the one place you can really think of as a magazine because they have longer lives. Also, I advise them, if you have a long standing account and you're ready to sort of move that into a business account, go back through and, most like a, delete most of your material or go back and really edit out your material.
R. Scott French:You don't need pictures embarrassing photo with you in high school or pictures of what you did and what I was at a frat party to eight years ago. It's just not important. Think about what people are gonna see. People will go back not everybody, but they will go back and look through it. So make sure you're proud of everything you put up there and make sure it supports what message you're trying to push forward as a brand or as a creative and if it doesn't get rid of it. But it all comes down to do it well or don't do it at all. It's really really key message of everything I tell clients Don't do it at all if you can't do it well.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, how many people work at very New York and what soft skills do you value most when evaluating potential collaborators, whether they're employees or clients?
R. Scott French:Contractors yeah, we only have myself and Maya as full-time day in and day out people, and then we have a really good list of people that we utilize as we need Meaning. I have one person that works. She's based in outside of Atlanta, georgia. She has a lot of our public relations work day in and day out, all their outreach to magazines and media, and she does all that for the fashion clients. We have a whole bunch of people that we use during event times. They come in, all the check-in people, all the seating people at Fashion Week. They know how to call models backstage and all that kind of stuff. But really we only have we have a core group of about eight of us, two of which are full-time and one of which is permanent freelance, and the others are just called in as needed.
R. Scott French:What I look for in those people when I'm working with them is one one can they write? Writing is the number one thing. It's not gonna be. How many people can't write? I'm talking about writing thank you at the end of an email. It's like THX. No, it doesn't work that way. It's, you know it doesn't. So can they write?
R. Scott French:Do they know how to write in a variety of different ways, and do they have the ability to think and this is not the Steve Jobs quote but think differently enough? Do they think the way we think? They'd be nimble on their feet In the moment of an event or a moment that a crisis comes up? Can they really think of three or four different ways out of that? And do they hold the same values that we as an agency hold?
R. Scott French:It's customer service space, it's. There's no drama, there's no nonsense to it, just get the job done, and not just in a check your box sort of way, but get the job done. Get the job done well and know when you have time to do it really well, or know when it's okay to get it done. That much in an event. Sometimes, when something's falling, just don't worry about putting it back up, just get it out of the way and let the fashion show go on, okay. Or having that those quick response sort of thoughts in mind in crisis management is all key. And so back to the creative thought. They're thinking creatively, even in the most minor decisions, and that's really what we look for.
Andy Heise:So when you started very with your co-founder, what's the dynamic of starting a company with a co-founder? Is there anything? It pros, cons, I guess, as a way of looking at it.
R. Scott French:I'm a big believer in one mind thinks as much as one mind can think, but two minds think like three and three minds think like 12 or 20. It's exponential. So I also had a vision for the way I wanted things to be in my future, whether it be life, work, balance I can't stand that term, but it's true the way I would like to do things and also a vision for the way clients should be treated. And my Voo, who is my partner at Very New York, who I called. I never really spoke to her about let's start a business together until that morning and she immediately said yes, let's go.
R. Scott French:She and I had worked together for decades before and we didn't know it necessarily. When I had one of my runway shows many years ago, she was a student at FIT and she volunteered and worked as a volunteer at one of my shows. We never met, but we found out years later that we had already worked together that far. Then we ended up in education together, where I was teaching and in the same design program she was teaching in, so we were coworkers. She rose to be the director of that program and I was one of her employees. She then left and started a retail company for seven years and she hired me to do her public relations. Then, when she decided to close the retail company, I brought her into sort of the events at the other agency. So we had literally been working together in every possible way and throughout all that we were friendly as well. So we had like a friendship. We had everything but family relationships. So you've got to have a like-minded partner, a like-minded work ethic and it really comes under a like-minded standard of work.
R. Scott French:It's not to say about when we work. We both work whenever we want. Sometimes I'm working until three in the morning because why tomorrow morning I want to take the day off. My doesn't question that I bought my car. She does it. She understands that. But I also know that when I'm not there she's handling everything exactly the way I would have handled it my own or I have the belief and her abilities and vice versa, that if it's not exactly the way we would handle it, it's good enough in the way they're handling it that I can accept that and that's really key. It's a real synergy there and I don't think we've ever in three years three years last week since we've found it I don't think we've ever had an argument about anything. We've disagreed a couple of things, but we both are mature enough to say okay, that's fine, we'll go your way. If it doesn't work, we'll go my way, it doesn't matter, it's, in the end, getting it done and the client experience and the result is what's most important and there's really very little ego between us.
R. Scott French:She sends me something, a really funny story. The other day she sent a bio. A client asked us to rewrite a shorter bio and she did one her own way and one using chatGPT, the AI. Just to give it a shot, try it out, I can get a door to open it. And she said here's two bios. Let me know which one you like. I liked the chatGPT one better and she's like great, I've been replaced by a computer. But oh well, let's go with it. We just went with it, but it's like you know, there's no ego to it, so you've got to have a really smart computer.
R. Scott French:You got to have that energy and that synergy and if you don't have that, you've got to understand ways of working around that lack of, and if you can't get past that, it's just not going to work. It's really important to know your best friend, your absolute dream person you think could work with you. If it doesn't really work, move on.
Nick Petrella:Before disaster strikes, yeah it's good I've been in meetings with marketing firms as they've tried to understand the new brand they're working with. While they're doing that, they're reading the room. They're trying to determine goals and directions. What do you listen for in those initial meetings with a new client, and have you ever decided not to work with a brand?
R. Scott French:That's a really good question. Yes, we have decided not to work with brands, and what we listen for is do they have a realistic expectation of their place in the world? I mean an understanding of their place in the world and an expectation of what they can achieve.
R. Scott French:We talked to someone the other day and they were the if they didn't get the cover of Vogue in one month. They were not just moving forward. I'm like, well, don't bother, you're not going to get it. It's just like you're not going to get it. It's like I can look at you both in the eyes and you probably will never win the lottery. That's okay, that's just an opportunity. I hope you do. You probably won't, okay.
Nick Petrella:But I have to play. You've got to play first.
R. Scott French:But you know someone out there you're never going to get that cover of Vogue. I hope you do. But I cannot guarantee that. If they feel that we are their pathway to guaranteeing that it's a real red flag we wave, we can guarantee that they will be in contention or inexposed to the people who make those decisions. If their product happens to thread the proverbial needle by stuffing an elephant through the eye of a needle, they'll get on that cover. We can guarantee that opportunity, but we cannot guarantee the result.
R. Scott French:And if they don't understand that and they feel that they're just worthy of more than we feel they're worthy of, it's a real red flag and I'd rather not work with someone than to disappoint them, because a failure for them to realize that goal is not going to be blamed on them. They're going to blame it on us and then they're going to then tell people it's going to harm us in the long run. So I'd rather not have my reputation tainted on their misguided beliefs. So we'll turn them down. Similarly, if we tell them that you know, listen, we would love. We'll pitch you to Vogue, we'll try to get you there. We'll just use Vogue as an example there could be many different placements.
R. Scott French:We'll get you on the cover of Art News if you're a fire, arse, whatever, and they believe that. I think that they're being naive and stupid, because nobody can guarantee that.
Andy Heise:But if they understand that.
R. Scott French:We can't guarantee that, but they'll be exposed to it. That's a client that we might be willing to work with. So, yes, we have turned them down, but we need to hear that they do understand their place, they understand where they are and that they have something that's worthy of talking, being talked about. And if all those elements click, then they're a good client and we can move on to the next phase of talking about the economics of it all.
Andy Heise:Yeah, Well, Scott, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions, and the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an entrepreneur?
R. Scott French:Make sure you have something that the people want. It's not about what you think they, but people must want it. The reality is, if the entire world of the creative, the entire, all the new artists out there, all the new creatives out there, they all went away, today the world would be just fine. Museums are full of things. There's enough established people out there already making things. And you making it just another pretty dress, or you making just another pretty landscape painting, or you making just another pretty piece of furniture, who cares? Okay, you've got to make them want it.
R. Scott French:And if you can give them something they want and create the mystique around that that's going to make them want, then you'll have a good chance of succeeding. Even with that, you might not succeed. It's a really really. You know, I mentioned that lottery a little bit earlier. Maybe you'd be better off playing the lottery in some cases. But if you do have this entrepreneurial desire in the creative world, make sure that there's more people that want your product and will pay for your product, whatever that product is then, and also make sure the people that are paying for your product have a different last thing than your own. If it's just family and friends, you're not going to go very far, yeah.
Nick Petrella:What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible in reaching the widest possible audience?
R. Scott French:I would say keep doing them, keep putting yourself out there, keep finding ways of defining your creative ideas and getting them out there in a meaningful way, you know, by posting them, by putting them in you know galleries, by selling stores and always coming with something new and different. The creative process. I do work with a lot of people and this is a fashion specific item. It goes into product redesign as well. They come to you and say, well, they want me to sign a non-disclosure before they'll show me their dress. I'm like, if you've lost your marbles, get out of here. That's one of those touch points, like they're not realistic. They always have a shock where you might take my idea and go with it. Like, well, if you only have this one idea, you're banking your whole future on one idea.
R. Scott French:In a creative realm, you're not going to go very far because someone will knock you off, someone will copy it. Changes are, someone's already copied it, you just don't know it. Right, you've got to have more than one idea. You've got to constantly keep reinventing, constantly keep pushing forward and saying, okay, I've done really well with these five red widgets. Well, how can I sell pink widgets next time? And now, I've done red and pink Now maybe I can make them green next time. And okay, now they're not buying the widget and whatever I make it, what's the newest widget? You've got to always have that next thing in the pipeline. And if you always have the next thing in the pipeline and you know how to properly expose it to the those who can consume it, there's going to be an audience for it and you'll keep pushing the creative process forward and where people will see it.
Andy Heise:Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've ever been given?
R. Scott French:I love this question and I was given to a somewhat of a famous person. His name is Mickey Drexler, and if people don't know who Mickey Drexler is, he was the CEO of Banana Republic and the Gap for many, many years and he went on to own J Crew and reinvent J Crew and turn it into the mega house that it was. Many years ago I was up for a promotion at Banana Republic. I was in retail. I first left college and I was being passed over nonstop. Everyone around me was like flying by me. I'm like what the heck's going on? Like I'm meeting all my numbers, my staff's all happy, the sales are being there and the store always looks great.
R. Scott French:I was in these great reports. I'm like Mickey, what's going on? Why am I always passed over? He's like well, it's easy, you're correct. You've met all your numbers, your store always looks good, your sales people are all happy, your sales are. I said.
R. Scott French:But if I take you out of the store, there's no one to fill your spot. You've got to continue to reinvent the next generation, train the next generation, bring them forward. He said until you train your replacement, there's no chance I'm moving you out of this location. So you're in charge of the number one store in the country and it's number one, but there's nobody going to keep it number one if you leave, and that was a real eye-opener for me.
R. Scott French:You've got to train the people below you and that's why, as controversial as people like Mark Kastavi or Andy Warhol, these artists were or are in the case of Kastavi, where they have people painting behind them, they're also real Jesus in that. Think about what a bigger impression that they can make by silk screening instead of painting each one. Or in the case of Mark Kastavi, where he hired stuff to paint them, he just signs the canvases and he's made that honestly part of his art. So he's training. How can you make the next generation, how can you make more work? Training people to do it with you, and if you don't have that spirit of bringing people along with you, you're only as big as you are, as you're our finite.
Nick Petrella:Yeah Well, Scott, this has been great. It gave us a lot to think about and messaging and branding, and I'm sure people will be referring to this episode in the future.
R. Scott French:I can only hope. Thank you for the opportunity. Thanks, Scott.
Announcer:Thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please subscribe. Visit artsentrepreneurshippodcastcom to learn more about our guest and how you can help support artists, the arts and this podcast.
