Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#256: Tracy Vollbrecht (Adaptive & Universal Fashion Design) (pt. 1 of 2)
Today we released part one of our interview with Tracy Vollbrecht. She’s the founder of Vollbrecht Adaptive Consulting, an adaptive fashion consultancy rooted in universal design principles. With work featured in Women’s Wear Daily, Vogue, Oprah Daily and Cosmopolitan, Tracy is a recognized adaptive and universal design consultant. Her first experience with inclusive, functional fashion came when she unknowingly put universal design principles into action to help her dad manage his Multiple Sclerosis. Prior to starting her company, she held designer positions at companies such as JuniperUNLTD’S Yarrow and ULEX, and Macy’s. Tracy is an ardent proponent of fashion for all, so you won't want to miss her thought-provoking interview. www.vollbrechtadaptiveconsulting.com
Ever wondered how a simple piece of clothing can become a game-changer for someone with unique physical needs? Prepare to be enlightened as Tracy Volbrecht, the innovative mind behind Volbrecht Adaptive Consulting, takes us on a journey through the transformative world of adaptive and universal fashion design. From her academic roots to shaping the industry's inclusive future, Tracy's story is a testament to how passion can drive progress. Our conversation delves into how the fashion landscape is shifting, with startups and major brands alike rethinking design for the diversity of human bodies and abilities.
Tracy gives us an insider's look at the evolution taking place behind the scenes as well as on the store shelves. We explore how Tracy's expertise helps brands seamlessly integrate adaptive features, the rise of marketplaces dedicated to these innovative products, and the profound personal stories fueling this movement. By examining how existing products can be adapted for wider use, we uncover the symbiotic relationship between universal design and targeted adaptive solutions, and how this approach can create a more inclusive world for everyone.
Life doesn't fit neatly into compartments, and neither should our passions. Tracy embodies this belief, sharing how her love for outdoor adventures enriches her professional endeavors, offering fresh perspectives on adaptive design. Our discussion also spotlights the importance of ongoing education, as Tracy details her venture into creating online courses to equip future designers with knowledge crucial for fostering inclusivity. Wrapping up, we're reminded that inclusivity is a journey we're all part of – one that requires our collective effort to make small, meaningful changes towards a world where everyone feels included. Join us for an inspiring dialogue that stitches together innovation, empathy, and the drive to make a difference.
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hello Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise.
Nick Petrella:And I'm Nick Petrella. Tracy Vollbrecht is joining us today. She's the founder of Vollbrecht Adaptive Consulting, an adaptive fashion consultancy rooted in universal design principles, with work featured in Women's Wear Daily, Vogue, Oprah Daily and Cosmopolitan. Tracy is a recognized adaptive and universal design consultant. Her first experience with inclusive, functional fashion came when she unknowingly put universal design principles into action to help her dad manage his multiple sclerosis. Prior to starting her company, she held designer positions at companies such as JuniperUNLTD's, Yarrow and ULEX and Macy's. Tracy's website is in the show notes so you can learn more about her and her broad experiences in the fashion industry. Thanks for being with us, tracy.
Tracy Vollbrecht:Nice to be here.
Nick Petrella:For our listeners not skilled in the art of fashion, please explain the differences between universal and adaptive design.
Tracy Vollbrecht:Great question, nick. It's one I get pretty frequently, so even those skilled in the fashion industry might not know. So the way I define these two terms are adaptive design is clothing or other products designed specifically for people with disabilities, versus universal design is products and shoes, fashion, other items that is designed to appeal to a wide, broad range of people and take into account all the different experiences, including the experiences of people with disabilities. So it's a lot more broad than just people with disabilities, but it definitely applies and takes into consideration the experiences of people with disabilities.
Andy Heise:What you just said reminded me of something, a podcast I heard I can't remember if it was Radio Lab or Hidden Brain or something and they talked about how there was, like the standard for jeans is based on, like this one person's body type. Are you familiar with that story?
Tracy Vollbrecht:I am not familiar with that specific story, but that does not surprise me at all.
Andy Heise:Yeah, they had a name for this woman and I could. I don't know. I should have looked it up before this interview. Anyways, moving along, tracy, can you talk about your journey from graduating from Kent with your BFA in fashion and apparel design to where you are now?
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, happy to. So while I was at Kent I did a BFA, which within the fashion program there are two tracks, a BA and a BFA. Within the BFA track it is a little bit more research intense as well as development intense. So I did research around adaptive and universal design and developed a collection of universally designed pieces and presented the research that I did at a couple of conferences. So I knew I was passionate about this area of the fashion industry. But then when I went to go look for a job, there was nothing in this space. It was still very new, which probably shouldn't have surprised me because I didn't even know what adaptive and universal design was. So very new area. Not a lot of companies in the adaptive fashion space.
Tracy Vollbrecht:So I ended up taking a job at a startup called LaLin, which was a great experience because I was able to really have that like wear many hats aspect where I was on half of the design team. I was half of the production team, really got to see the whole development process. From there I ended up moving to Macy's, which is kind of the complete opposite end of a startup. So Macy's is a corporate system and I was specifically on their charter club brand and the way Macy's is structured. You're divided into their different brands and then within the brands, you're divided actually into some specific category teams. So I started out on the women's sweaters team, ended up picking up a couple other categories in there, so getting a little bit more experience.
Tracy Vollbrecht:But it was really that flip side of getting to really focus on just sweaters for a bit, and because Macy's is such a huge company, things were different in terms of the leverage we had with factories, kind of what we could do in the design sense, mainly because we were ordering a ton of pieces, versus at the startup we were ordering like 50 to 100 pieces. So that gave me two really different perspectives, which was awesome and ended up being absolutely perfect when Juniper Unlimited reached out looking for a designer to help found Yaro and Ulex the two brands that Nick mentioned earlier and so the way that Juniper Unlimited was structured was that Juniper Unlimited functioned like a startup but it was backed by Global Brands Group, which is another big corporate company, so it got to really pull both of those experiences.
Andy Heise:Yeah, and so Juniper Unlimited was focused specifically on adaptive design.
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yep, yeah. So that was awesome when they reached out to me saying, hey, we're looking to launch these two brands, yaro and Ulex. Well, started out with Yaro first, and then we eventually moved into Ulex, and so it was awesome to be able to focus my full day on adaptive design.
Andy Heise:Yeah, and were you aware of the sort of I don't know the startup types of companies in the fashion world? Like, as you were a student, was that even something you were aware of or thinking about? Or was it kind of a surprise when you're like, oh well, the only people doing this are new small companies, which is sort of maybe counterintuitive to what you were looking for, hoping for or whatever.
Tracy Vollbrecht:That's a great question. I definitely knew while in college that there was a whole range of sizes and they function differently. We could probably do a whole podcast on how luxury or high fashion operates as well, which is pretty different than those two systems I described. So I was well aware of that. Really, pon graduation was looking for something smaller, something where I'd gain a lot of skills and then moving into figuring out the adaptive piece of it.
Tracy Vollbrecht:I was pretty surprised to see that these brands that had launched adaptive collections were kind of doing it as a side project, almost like, I guess, an intrapreneurship aspect there. So that was, I guess, a little surprising, a little disappointing, because I definitely had hope to go straight into an adaptive fashion designer role, but I think it is. It was really important that I got the experience at LaLin, which was the startup, and at Macy's, because a key element of well more than a key element, the element of adaptive fashion is the fashion piece. It still needs to be fashionable, you're still working within the fashion system, so all of those skills from a non-adaptive company still apply, and then you layer on the adaptive element to that.
Andy Heise:Yeah, and so are most of them. Are the major brands, most of the major brands, now thinking about adaptive, or they have an adaptive arm to them, or yes, and no, has that changed, I guess, over the last five years?
Tracy Vollbrecht:Definitely, things have for sure, changed. Last I checked in terms of the market and you know who's out there globally. There's about 100 brands worldwide, so that is huge. The number 10 that I pulled for like 2016, 2017 time period I'm not sure if that's just US based or worldwide, but I know now globally from research that I've done, there's about 100 companies of various sizes. So here in the US we have Target that I mentioned, tommy Adaptive, jc Penney, Kohl's, zappos has a adaptive marketplace, so there's really a lot of big brands getting into it. And then, on the flip side is a lot of small brands and startups, people who have an idea for a product that you know would be game changer for their son, for themselves. That element, which I think that element brings something completely unique as well to have someone who's like yeah, I'm passionate about this and I'm going to make it happen, because this product doesn't exist out there.
Nick Petrella:That's great. And so, prior to Adaptive fashion, did these global brands just take their universal fashion and tweak it? Or did they just specifically start from I don't know first principles, thinking what this should be in adaptive fashion? How was the approach?
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, let's see, honestly, I think it's important to address that like, most brands just weren't thinking about people with disabilities. So that's a big element in the education that I do around adaptive fashion is we do have this cycle of exclusivity where you don't see someone in the stores with a disability, probably because the store isn't accessible, because there isn't product there for them, but because you don't see them in the store, brands don't think of them as a customer, so then they don't make changes, so then the people don't go to the store and it really just is this cycle that's self perpetuating. So that's a key element of some of the work that I do is really education around how we can break that cycle and how we can start thinking about people with disabilities as consumers, because they are, and in the US one in four people with had a disability. It's a huge number of people. So on that side, brands just weren't thinking about it. But now we've definitely moved more towards an inclusivity lens across all of fashion, more than just people with disabilities. You know all the different lived experiences and having that inclusivity lens.
Tracy Vollbrecht:So now that brands are moving towards that, typically from what I've seen, at least talking in terms of the big brands, like those big department stores that I just mentioned, they want to maintain their brand identity. So they're usually taking a product that already exists in their main non adaptive line and then modifying it to have adaptive features so that it keeps that same brand identity, is still similar offering, and occasionally they will do some pieces that are more research and development based, where they're starting from scratch or starting with an idea, but often they are, I would say, toe in the water is kind of the phrase I like to use, in that there, easing into adaptive, whereas the small brands are diving right in because they have to, they're launching with a couple products that are specifically adaptive or specifically universally designed, and they're all in because that's what they have to do. They don't have the rest of the department to fall back on.
Nick Petrella:Right, yeah, they're going to be more nimble.
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, exactly.
Andy Heise:Well, and that's where you come in, right for these bigger brands. Right, you come in and help them figure out how to do that.
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, so I work with clients of all sizes. There's enjoyable elements of both of it. On the small side, like Nick mentioned, the nimble element of working with small brands is awesome. You know, you suggest a change and they're like yeah, let's do it, let's do it there we go. Versus the big brand that I have worked with is Target, and again, they're a corporate system. They have processes in place, there's people with different roles and they all have to interact, so things just take a little bit more time, which is totally fine, because then they also have the benefit of more naturally reaching more people. Versus the small brand has to build up that customer base.
Nick Petrella:Tracy, how has adaptive design changed over the years and what have you and your colleagues done to propel the field?
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, definitely growing, which is exciting to see. It's growing maybe a little slower than some of us would like, but I think growth in general is good. Options are good in terms of someone who wants to shop at Target or someone wants to buy online or someone wants to support a small business, so having a lot of different options. Marketplaces have also developed. That was a little bit of a starting point in terms of getting into the space, like Zappos. Adaptive Marketplace was one of the first marketplaces and now we have a decent amount more, including Paddy and Ricky, which is a small brand. They're an awesome marketplace, and then some international marketplaces as well.
Tracy Vollbrecht:In terms of the work that I've done and the work that people are doing work like me to contribute that to this. Growth really starts with representation, with pointing out how important this is At the end of the day, how it benefits us all. Innovative design really does impact everyone. We can look back at so many other non-fashion products that we probably use in our everyday life. We don't think twice. I'm sure if we were to include the video of this podcast recording, we would include captions. So things like that, that accessibility things we take for granted that did start from a place of being focused on people with disabilities.
Andy Heise:So you talked about how some of the newer products that are being developed kind of come from a place of need Somebody developing a product for their kid or their spouse or whatever. You have a similar story of developing products for your father. Would you share that story with us?
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, happy to Just to clarify there. I actually didn't do any designing for my dad. So my dad had multiple sclerosis and was really struggling with temperature regulation, both due to the MS and also due to the fact that he had been losing weight because of MS. So, really having these temperature regulation issues and I at the time, and still to this day, I'm an avid runner and my dad had bought me a couple under armor running sets or like base layers, so essentially leggings and a long sleeve that I would run in. I had one for above freezing. I had one for when Ohio got the best of me and I needed. It was below freezing and I was frozen. So I ended up getting my dad a couple of those sets.
Tracy Vollbrecht:And so the point that I like to emphasize on there is that I didn't do any designing I brought, you know, I all I did was connect a clothing challenge temperature regulation to a solution that already exists.
Tracy Vollbrecht:So while I'm excited to see all the new technologies that are going to come out in adaptive fashion, I do like to rely to remind my clients that we can start small, that making the fashion industry work for people with disabilities doesn't need to always take rocket science. Sometimes it's just a matter of testing a product and seeing if it works and then updating the marketing and the online product language to say, hey, under armor. Running sets work great for people training for marathons, but also work great to be worn underneath your everyday clothes to help with some extra insulation or temperature regulation, which is what my dad did. So he wanted to keep his standard everyday data tire think like new balance sneakers before they were cool Levi's flannels and then below that he would wear his these running sets, which just made such an impact on his day to day, while still maintaining his identity.
Andy Heise:Yeah, you know, that's such a good point. That's such a good point. We often think about, you know, solving a problem by creating something new, rather than saying, well, what else, what do we have available to us and how can we use that to repurpose or solve the problem.
Tracy Vollbrecht:We're exactly.
Nick Petrella:Because I'm wondering business-wise, there are so many variations, so, given the scope of disabilities, so not only would you and your colleagues have to be aware of the physical designs and fabric movement, but also aspects of texture and colors for those with sensory sensitivity. So, with all this in mind, and thinking about how many different variations there are, are there more customizable options available in adaptive fashion, and how much does that customization affect pricing? Because I just think, inventorying all that, how does that work?
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, great question. So there's kind of two routes. So I always like to champion the universal design element because it does really try and solve everything for everyone, which sometimes for sure doesn't work. Sometimes we do need customized solutions. So by taking a universal design approach, you may have a t-shirt that is cropped in length, which works great for someone in a wheelchair in terms of looking more proportional, but it also may have flat seams, so it's sensory-friendly. It may not have a tag at the back neck which is itchy. It'll instead have a heat seal. So that's considering those two different disability groups In the work that I do around education, as well as partnering with different brands.
Tracy Vollbrecht:The way that I have my I guess you could call it approach kind of structured is that I have disabilities divided into 12 disability groups, and these groupings are not at all based on medical anything that's not my area of expertise but they are based on similarities among clothing challenges. So looking at what clothing challenges or what clothing needs would then group people together with their disabilities in context there. So that's kind of more going the specifically adaptive design route where you might say, okay, I'm going to design for people with limited dexterity, that's one group. That group could include everyone from people who have arthritis to people who have paralysis. Even someone who has a hand prosthetic may have limited dexterity due to that prosthetic there, so really a bunch of different disabilities all kind of falling underneath that heading in relation to their clothing challenges of limited dexterity.
Tracy Vollbrecht:So there's definitely a need for both approaches of universal design, of something that works for everyone, as well as adaptive design and something that's very specific In terms of the kind of sub question there, nick, in terms of customization and kind of one off elements. We're definitely not there yet and that is wider than adaptive fashion. That's just the general fashion technology advancement element which is exciting to see. I'm starting to see technologies like machine weaving, so basically like a 3D weaver that can create a single pair of jeans rather than stacking all the fabric and cutting out the fabric for 100 pairs of jeans and selling 100 pairs of jeans. So I think advancements like that or like circular knitting, things like that, will help bring down those minimums the order quantity minimums that brands face, so that they're able to do more customization and individualization, and that'll benefit us all wider than just disability.
Nick Petrella:I imagine that would be key, because fashion goes in and out of style. It's not like a can of soup that has a 12 year batteries or something. Here's fashion goes in and out of style and if you have, you're not going to stock deep on. If someone needs, if there's a sleeve, I don't know what you'd say. So you were saying mobility, or if they didn't have an arm or something, you think of military people coming back in from their serves if they have issues, you can't stock deep. So that's what I was wondering.
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, definitely a huge consideration, especially in that divide between small brands and big brands.
Tracy Vollbrecht:So big brands do face usually larger order quantities.
Tracy Vollbrecht:The factory relationships they have are saying you need to order a thousand, 10,000 pieces of this, which is a big commitment, especially if, just getting into adaptive fashion, you may not know whether the product is going to be a fan favorite, which is really important in where where testing comes in, that you want to make sure that you've tested the heck out of this product to ensure that it'll actually work for people with disabilities.
Tracy Vollbrecht:But that doesn't necessarily mean it'll sell. It might not appeal to the aesthetic of your target audience and they might not know to find it. So having that large amount of stock can be a little risky. And then, on the opposite side, for small brands, they are usually able to find manufacturers that have a way lower order minimum, but even still 50 pieces for a brand that just launched today, that might take them a couple months to sell through. So they are holding on to that inventory and styles change, trends change. So there is this logistical element that also crosses over into the sustainability element as well, which is super interesting to then look at that intersection.
Andy Heise:Yeah, yeah. And something else he said made me realize that your work is not just in helping come up with designs for physical products, right? You also help with this sort of market segmentation thing, right? So you help companies think through well, who are we going at? Like it's one thing to say, we're going to do, let's do adaptive design. You're like, okay, well, what do you mean? What are you wanting to get out of it?
Tracy Vollbrecht:In theory I would love to only be doing designing.
Tracy Vollbrecht:I love my experience as a designer.
Tracy Vollbrecht:I think that creative element, bringing all of the players together around design, working with technical designers and other designers that would be awesome if I was just doing adaptive design or universal design, but really it does function within a larger system and those elements which I got to experience at Juniper because we were a startup and all kind of working together to get this thing out the door also ended up really interesting.
Tracy Vollbrecht:Ended up really interesting thing me there we go and so I really, in transitioning from Juniper into consulting, really am full service from start to all the way through sales and where needed, I will bring in other partners and experts to help. So I'm not necessarily going to say I'm an absolute marketing guru, but I can direct a marketing team to say, okay, this mark, this product, needs to be marketed for people with disabilities, which that approach is a little bit more like marketing performance gear, where you're saying, okay, what does the product do? Let's show a video of how it works, let's see how easy it is to use, rather than just being like look at this product, it looks great yeah, differentiators and value props for what you're doing.
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah.
Nick Petrella:When did you decide to go out on your own and what did you do to prepare for the move from being a W2 employee to an entrepreneur?
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, this I will say I am kind of an ease into it person. I'm usually not a like immediately jump into something. So I actually kind of did it almost a little bit as a transition. So I went from a full salaried employee to actually full time freelance work and then from there I had one freelance contract plus one adaptive contract and then from there transitioned into doing only adaptive, doing all of the businessy entrepreneurial things like forming an LLC, setting up a business credit card and business bank account and all of those elements there. And so I'm sure some people would prefer to like just immediately jump into the you know, owning a business, starting a business element. This transition really allowed me to afford the life that I wanted outside of work. Right, income is still a thing, rent is still a thing, so that transition helped for me.
Andy Heise:It's great. I love that you use the phrase. The life that you want to live that's the conversation I have with my students all the time is like you know, there's, of course, if you're going to do this business thing, you have business expenses, but that's just one. You're adding that to the life that you want to live, right? So I need to think of it holistically, not just like oh, this is business income, so it's kind of covered business expenses, right?
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, for sure. And to that I think. What you do outside of work, you know, then kind of comes back in, especially in a creative industry going to the museum, going out, spending some time in nature, being able to take time off to explore a new place, like all of those experiences then come back to my business and the work that I do and, you know, leave me reinvigorated or inspired by something that I saw that I might not have otherwise thought about.
Andy Heise:That's right, and so, as a self-employed individual, how do you find yourself spending most of your time outside of doing the consulting work?
Tracy Vollbrecht:My favorite thing about being a self-employed individual is that I really work on my time schedule and I have some friends who are also self-employed.
Tracy Vollbrecht:So frequently you will find me at a climbing gym at like 1pm during the day. It's not crowded. I'm there with my other self-employed friends and we all scheduled to not have meetings, so doing things like that is awesome. And then I also am an avid kayaker and stand up paddleboarder and I have been so fortunate to be able to work with an organization here in San Francisco called Environmental Trend Environmental Traveling Companions and essentially they do adaptive kayaking as well as kayaking for people who may not have ever gotten out on the water, whether it's because, you know, they're from a part of San Francisco where they don't have access to the water, or their parents don't know how to swim, so they never thought to take their kids out on the water. So that experience is really awesome because I love kayaking, because I love getting people out on the water, but also because I see, oh wait, this life jacket doesn't work for someone who has a larger body type, or this life jacket isn't as self-explanatory as I think it is.
Tracy Vollbrecht:I've grown up in a life jacket, so quick, quick zip, no big deal. Then I'm explaining that to someone who may be neurodivergent and or have a physical disability or whatnot, and it doesn't click for them. So you know that eye-opening element of like right. What we take for standard, whether it's clothing, gear, you know we think it's self-explanatory, we think it's standard isn't really standard to everyone.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, yeah, You're spending your time doing market research really.
Tracy Vollbrecht:Basically, but it doesn't feel like work at all because I really do love being out in the water, being active and then also, just in general, love to travel. So that's always on my list of things to do, and working fully remote and for myself definitely allows a lot of that which I love.
Andy Heise:That's great. What about on the business side of things Like so, when you're, you know, working with your clients or working on a project with your clients, that's you know that is that 80% of your work time? Is that 50% like? What are you doing when you're not like actually working with a client?
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, great question. So the working with clients really kind of ebbs and flows, as I imagine most people in any type of consulting work do. So I will have, like some you know, couple intense weeks where I'm working 40, 40 plus hours with a client doing sometimes that's the specific task. Like a client may say hey, we need you to do some market research around adaptive design. Can you prepare a document for us on who's out there? So that might be me seated at a laptop doing research for a full week. On the smaller brand side of things, it might be hey, I want to get into adaptive design, but I need some guidance. I want to make sure I'm doing this right. I've never launched a brand before or I'm not a fashion designer, and so that might be me reviewing their documents and then meeting with them in a zoom meeting. So the kind of day to day work definitely varies.
Tracy Vollbrecht:And then, in addition to working specifically with clients, I'm currently working on developing a online course series around adaptive fashion. So basically I'm working through it like about I think it'll be about 10 courses, kind of following that full adaptive fashion process. From what is this? I don't even know what these terms are all the way through. Who's the customer, who's the market? How do we do this? How do we develop adaptive fashion through those following pieces of merchandising and marketing? Because really you have to have this adaptive lens following the whole process. If you just, you know, kind of cut it off at one spot and treat it like non adaptive fashion in merchandising or in marketing or even in the development process, you're going to miss the mark. So that's been taking up a lot of my time lately.
Andy Heise:Well, and that's cool because you know what questions people ask when it comes to developing this stuff. So you are uniquely qualified to be able to develop that sort of a core series.
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, and I didn't see it existing out there in the market. So I figured I have all of this knowledge up in my head which sometimes is like overwhelming and all swimming around in there thinking about designing something while I'm out on a kayak and really getting it down into resources that will help others who are interested in this space, who want to learn more before they actually call me and say, hey, let's do this. They want to know what they're getting into, which is totally valid.
Nick Petrella:So that's your customer segment for those courses Maybe future designers, or maybe buyers, or who?
Tracy Vollbrecht:Yeah, I would say there's two lenses there. The first group of customers is definitely students. I get so many students who reach out to me that say I'm interested in this. My university doesn't offer anything yet, which that never surprises me because there are very few universities even doing like projects around this. Like I know Kent they're doing a project around adaptive design, but that's still not a whole course. So I think on the student side of things it'll definitely be super educational.
Tracy Vollbrecht:And then on the industry, professional side of things, anyone really at any aspect of the fashion industry could benefit from tuning into this, learning more. And then they're bringing that lens and that consideration to their day-to-day job, whether it's just thinking about inclusivity a little bit more or adding a little feature. So, for example, on the marketing side of things, let's say they've watched the course. They're like oh, I learned that our business marketing we should use on social media. We should include alternative text to describe what our posts with the photo on Instagram has in case someone's using a screen reader while using Instagram and looking at our brand that way. So those little shifts can really make a huge impact. Inclusivity is, for sure, a journey, not a destination. There's no, I did it check off. It's a continuous process. So if we can all make a little change in our everyday life, even if we're not in adaptive fashion or not hands-on with a product, can definitely make an impact.
Andy Heise:That's great yeah.
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