Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#281: Matthew Polenzani (Lyric Tenor) (pt. 2 of 2)
This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with renowned lyric tenor, Matthew Polenzani. He performs regularly with the Metropolitan Opera and appears in opera houses around the world such as the Vienna State Opera, Paris Opera, and Teatro Real in Madrid.
Matthew is continuously in demand for concert engagements with the world’s most influential conductors, and with premiere ensembles such as the Berlin Philharmonic, Boston Symphony, Chicago Symphony, Cleveland Orchestra, New York Philharmonic, and the Munich Philharmonic.
Join us for this mini-master class in career development for any aspiring musician! https://matthewpolenzani.com/
This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with renowned lyric tenor, Matthew Polenzani. He performs regularly with the Metropolitan Opera and appears in opera houses around the world such as the Vienna State Opera, Paris Opera, and Teatro Real in Madrid.
Matthew is continuously in demand for concert engagements with the world’s most influential conductors, and with premiere ensembles such as the Berlin Philharmonic, Boston Symphony, Chicago Symphony, Cleveland Orchestra, New York Philharmonic, and the Munich Philharmonic.
Join us for this mini-master class in career development for any aspiring musician! https://matthewpolenzani.com/
Hi Nick Petrella here. This episode is sponsored by Volkweins Music, a full-service shop that's been meeting the musical needs of musicians for over 135 years. They offer a huge selection of instruments, accessories, music and more. They also have an unmatched instrument repair department with some of the most experienced technicians in the business. For years they've serviced my personal and school instruments, and their attention to detail is why I and professional musicians from around the globe trust Volkwines to service their gear. Head over to volkweinsmusic. com to see what they can do for you. That's V-O-L-K-W-E-I-N-S music. com, helping people discover music since 1888.
Announcer:Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise and I'm Nick Petrella.
Nick Petrella:We're excited to have renowned lyric tenor Matthew Polenzani on the podcast. He performs regularly with the Metropolitan Opera and appears in opera houses around the world, such as the Vienna State , Paris Opera and Teatro Real in Madrid. Matthew is continuously in demand for concert engagements with the world's most influential conductors and with premier ensembles such as the Berlin Philharmonic, Boston Symphony, Chicago Symphony, Cleveland Orchestra, new York Philharmonic and the Munich Philharmonic. Matthew has many more accolades than we can mention in this brief bio, so we'll have his website in the show notes so you can learn more about him, his lengthy discography and performance schedule. Thanks so much for being with us today, Matt.
Matthew Polenzani:Yeah, glad to be here.
Andy Heise:So opera is deeply rooted in tradition. How do you think about innovation and relevance in the opera world as it continues to evolve into the future?
Matthew Polenzani:Well, it's a tough question because opera is most definitely a museum art form. Most operas are at least 100 years old and many are 200, 250 years old. So our problem with relevance, I think, has more to do with how little we're teaching music in our schools these days and how arts are the first to go when funding dries up and we're pushing money into athletics, which is where the money is. I get it. Um, I mean, I have. I have lots of different feelings about this, but I do think innovation in terms of production value is interesting, and I've been in some new productions, modern productions, that made good sense to me, and I've been in others that were absolutely useless and that I'm sure we'll never see the light of day again. For me, it usually starts with keeping the core of the character intact. If we're talking about, you know, I had to use a more popular like a magic flute, you know, which is one that theaters often do, you know, and it appeals to a wide range of audiences. If you take away my character, whose name is Tamino, if you take away his heart, you know, and you make him and this is just me making something up. I've never seen this making something up. I've never seen this. I mean like you, you you make him try to try to get with the queen of the night instead of with Pamina, her daughter, or something like that. Or you do, or Pamina tries to get with Papageno or with Zarrasco, or something. I mean like, if you look for, if you look for ways to make something interesting but take away the core and the heart of the character, we lose and the opera can't stand, it doesn't work on its own because the thrust and nature of the music and the words we have are unchangeable. They're what we have and the music we got and they're the characters we have. So you want to change the setting. I'm down. You want to change if you want to move the action from 17, you know Romeo and Juliet and 1700s, verona to or whatever it was maybe it's not even 1700s, I can't remember, it doesn't matter the year ancient Verona to 1978, you know Hell's Kitchen hey man, go nuts. Just leave me the characters intact. That's the important thing. Leave the emotional drama that we get from the music and the words that we have intact and I think audiences will buy it. Of course, I thought that was true. I did.
Matthew Polenzani:The Met had a newer. It's been since been replaced, but they had production of rigoletto, um, some years back. That was set in like 50s, 60s, vegas, you know, and uh, for me the production worked. It worked because my character, the duke, was sort of based loosely on like frank sinatra type, um, like that's's. I didn't have to change the character of the guy who I knew he was, and the Duke and the Gilda and the Spada Fucili, they didn't have to change who they were to function inside the music and words that we had. So keeping things relevant starts with keeping the core of the characters relevant, and from there you can take off in lots of different directions. But if you lose those people, if you lose the focus that the composers and the librettists wrote with well, then the opera starts to make less and less sense. And it's a difficult thing, difficult road, but I think that's big.
Matthew Polenzani:And of course, the other thing which I flirted with at the beginning, which was we have to continue to educate our children about this stuff. This music is important, it's relevant and it's valid. And because it's old, are we throwing away artwork from Van Gogh, or I don't know Picasso, he's too recent for that or you know Rodin, or or Michelangelo, or are we throwing this stuff away because, because it's not new? We're not, of course, we're learning new ways to appreciate it. Um and uh. The same is true for ballet, the same is true for symphonic works. I mean, this stuff is valid, it's just different. But we have to keep teaching it. We teach history because we learn from history, you know, and hopefully we're growing as a society as we look back at what we did and how we did it.
Matthew Polenzani:And this, these works of art, works, musical works, all these things, they're no less valid because they're old. In fact, we can learn from them. And oddly, I mean, most operatic themes are absolutely themes of today. You know, there's love and and hate and murder and war and jealousy and friendship. I mean, these things are absolutely valid today, but we've been writing about them for centuries, you know. So it's just a different mode of delivery, but we have to make sure that the children get introduced to it, that they start to understand it, that they get a chance to fall in love with it, you know, and um, taking music out of schools, and my, I mean here in my school, it's my, my, my children's school. I mean like, uh, it's no, it's no different. Like my kids, they have to go to band at seven, 30 in the morning, you know before school starts you know, and, um, they do still have things during the day.
Matthew Polenzani:There is music during the day, you know, but if you're trying to get, if you're trying to get, if you're trying to broaden your musical horizons, oftentimes it has to happen outside of the school day and that's tough, you know.
Matthew Polenzani:I don't know how we had time for it when we were kids. I mean my, my school day started at 8 and ended at 3. I mean or 3.10 or whatever. As a generality, I mean like I had time to be in a couple choirs and I still managed to go to Science and math and English and social studies, etc. You know, I don't know, I don't know why we don't have the time we don't have anymore, but my kids school Ends a little earlier. They end at like 10 to 3, that's 20 minutes earlier. We don't have the time we don't have anymore, but my kid's school ends a little earlier. They end at like 10 to 3. That's 20 minutes earlier. And some schools, and frankly, in this school system in particular, and you know what, there's no reason we have to talk about this anyways, you know what I mean. But we have to continue to educate our children and that is really the thing that's the most important.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, sure. So we briefly touched upon management a couple of questions ago and I want to pick that back up again. So I noticed that your management company is based in Poland and they focus primarily on vocalists and conductors. Given that there are many management companies, what characteristics attracted you about this particular firm? Because I think you said you started in 97 or 99?
Matthew Polenzani:with him, yeah yeah okay, first the Poland thing. I'll just address that he's. He's an Italian guy. He's based in Poland for tax reasons. You know that is the main reason he's there.
Matthew Polenzani:So when he started working for me in 1999, I was with an agency here in America called IMG Artists, which was, at that in those days, a subsidiary of like the IMG of the sports and modeling world or whatever. They became detached at some point in those years I don't remember when it doesn't even matter detached at some point in those years. I don't remember when it doesn't even matter. So my agent, whose name is Gianluca Gianluca was working for me only in Italy at the very beginning, and I had a manager here in New York and had a manager who was based in Paris, and the Paris basically did everywhere except Italy, and the New York manager handled New York and Asia if it came to it, you know. So when At some point, basically what happened was when my European manager left, I gave Gianluca Europe, and when my American manager retired in I've forgotten the year now around 2012 or 13 or so, when he retired, then I gave Gianluca my whole, the whole world. So he's been working for me for about 10 or 11, 12 years in the whole world. So he's been working for me for about 10 or 11, 12 years in the whole world, and so I I've stayed with him all these years because he's especially great.
Matthew Polenzani:Well, number one, he's short. He shared my vision for my voice. He understood why I was doing things the way I was doing them. He agreed, he helped me build in the in the way I wanted to be built. He helped me build in the way I wanted to be built.
Matthew Polenzani:He has pushed me to take things, to take steps when I wasn't quite willing to take, and then things I was able to talk over with my wife and my teacher and who they were able to say, yeah, I can see this. And so he's never been crazy about what he thought I should be doing. Um, and, like I said earlier, I mean like at my age now there's there's virtually no part out there that I would, that I would say no to, except unless I just didn't want it. You know, Um, but uh, I at some point I think there's there's not much repertory out there that I couldn't sing. So I mean, because I've shared, he's been a good proponent of mine and supporter of mine and a guy who I would trust with decisions about what I should or shouldn't be singing or who I should or shouldn't be working with. He's remained in the fold this whole time, and there have been three managers that I've let go along the way and who I didn't share the same amount of trust with, let's say, and certainly with a manager.
Nick Petrella:That's hugely important.
Matthew Polenzani:It's like a marriage. It's very much like a marriage. You have to be gentle with each other, you have to trust each other, you have to be willing to talk to each other. Sometimes you've got to have hard conversations with each other, and he's been great over all these years and that's the reason why he's still managing me. What 25 years later?
Andy Heise:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, what 25 years later? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. On the podcast we usually we talk a lot about successes that artists have had. I was wondering if you'd be willing to share, maybe something that didn't go the way you wanted to go, maybe, maybe a failure or a setback that you've experienced and and something that you've learned from, something you learned from that experience.
Matthew Polenzani:Hmm, yeah, you know it's funny, I haven't experienced many of them over the course of my career, um, and a big part of that is because I've been very to my repertory. I'm aware that in one case, like the first time, I sang something, not that I wasn't ready for it, but in my brain, hadn't grasped completely the character Vocally, there wasn't a demand that I couldn't meet, sure, but I knew that, you know, and, and in the doing of it, like I finished the run and and I thought to myself I've got a lot more to give to this guy, you know, um, and I wouldn't have said it was, uh, it was an especially big success for me. It wasn't a flop and it wasn't a failure and, like I said, I could meet the vocal demands, um, what I, what I didn't, I didn't have the command of the guy's inner psyche the way I do with other parts that I sing. So that was a learning experience. But I've since sung it and um, and felt much more comfortable being in his shoes, um, so I didn't consider it a loss or a flop because my, you know, my, it was fine but just wasn't everything I could be, you know, and that's happened a couple of times over the years and, um, you know mostly, um, I try to measure that stuff by how well I'm doing here in the house, how well I'm doing here at home with my boys and with my wife and with my friends too. You know, I mean, like this is a, you know something.
Matthew Polenzani:Again. I'll give you another one of the little things I like to say to um, to, uh, grad students or to students in general. You know, you got to practice and you got to get your grades, you got to do the work you have to do while you're in school. However, you've also got to go out and make friends and lose friends and fall in love and break up and and have life experiences. Because, frankly, if you're going to try and relate a love loss or a friendship broken on the stage, well, it sure helps to have lived that in your life, in your life and, for instance, the part of tito and clemenza de tito.
Matthew Polenzani:This is a very, very shortly. He has a, he has has a dear confidant who um has been like his one true and deepest and dearest friend, and the friend um, because of a love interest, tries to kill him. He doesn't succeed and then spend the second half of the opera, talking about how, what he's going to do and how he's going to deal with this problem. And I, for a year, I resisted that part for quite a few years because I couldn't find a way to get myself into his shoes. The vocal demands were nothing. It was a Mozart piece. Um, no problem for me to sing, and I've sung it a lot now. Um, I mean, like I just said, no, because I didn't think I had the life experience to blend the guy, a character, a weight, you know, uh, that he needed, um, and so, to take it back to what I was just talking about, they have.
Matthew Polenzani:You, young people, have to fill up your lives with life experiences. I'm not saying shirk your studies, and I'm not saying don't say and don't practice. You got to get your work done, but the practice room can't be your whole life, it can't be everything. And if you want to play with soul and with heart, if you want to sing with, with an openness, well, you better have had a life experience to share. You know, and obviously you know like most of us can't sing about I mean, killing happens, happens in opera too, you know, and most of us can't sing about that stuff with any. You know you have to, but you can certainly find other avenues of at times that you've been angry.
Matthew Polenzani:But if you hadn't had a life experience, well, where are you going to find that? Where's your inspiration going to be? You have to absolutely build up your life and be with friends and be with people and go places and experience things so that when you're singing about it you can relate. And I'll tell singers all the time you should be singing to me like we're having a conversation in a bar or walking in a park or playing golf together or whatever. We should be talking to each other like we talk to each other. You know, and just because the words are put together for you in the in, in the order that they're in, and the musical way they're put together, doesn't mean they can't be as real as that. Yeah, you know, and I try to get kids all the time to just to let go of the. Oh, I have to stand like this, and and my hands are like this, and you know, and and uh technical.
Matthew Polenzani:Yeah, we got to leave the technical behind. This is why it's so important to you know, and, and, uh, technical, yeah, oh, we got to leave the technical behind. This is why it's so important to study you know, so that your technical stuff gets put in and then you can use it without thinking about it. You know really big. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, you must spend a lot of time learning music and lyrics, so what hacks do you have to make that easier or maybe more efficient that other vocalists might want to try?
Matthew Polenzani:The only sort of hack that I have would be like, if I'm struggling with something, I make sure it's the last thing I'm looking at before I go to bed and the first thing I look at when I wait when I wake up, even if only for five minutes, you know. I mean like the brain seems to suck in better if it's been chewing on it overnight and then you remind it in the morning what it is. Um, so this year in particular and I'll we're we're going to find out whether or not this works for me um, because this year is bad in particular, like I just this madame butterfly did. This year was the first one I ever, first time ever, saying it. Um, I have, uh, adriana lecouvreur later this year in madrid, and after that I have schwanengazang, which is six, uh, I forget how many songs 14, 16 songs, something like this, about 45 minutes of music, 40, 45 minutes of music. Um, that's right after that in november. And then I have another. I have another new part vanessa in um in uh, in washington dc, and at least there it's a concert, so I get to use the music, but it's really hard music. It's written by Barber and it's not atonal per se, it's not like Berg or even Schoenberg or somebody like this, but it's a different musical language.
Matthew Polenzani:And then, past that I have, I have another new thing, and this all in the space of about 14, 15 months. So I mean, like my, this is going to be a trial this year and, yeah, there's going to be a lot of study and a lot of trying to get you know, to get these things into my brain, and you know it's going to be hard, it's there's. I'm already wishing I hadn't said yes to at least one of them. You know it's going to be hard, it's there's. I'm already wishing I hadn't said yes to at least one of them, you know, just because of the amount of learning that it is and really the amount of time I have to spend studying in the middle of doing other things. Well, I don't like to do that, you know. I like to be down, I like my downtime to be downtime and this year I don't have it, you know, and this year in particular is really bad and of course I'm trying to put the right spin on it.
Matthew Polenzani:Like I said, my oldest is about to be, he'll be a senior next year. So, like in the college, tuitions are, are, are they're comically, tragically awful and, yeah, certainly, most certainly not worth it if you're somebody who's going somewhere and taking out $150,000, $200,000, $250,000. I mean, like some of the schools my son is looking at, with room and board put in, I mean it won't be less than $85,000 or $90,000 a year, oh yeah.
Matthew Polenzani:And this is an insanity. And, of course, if I talk to any of my canadian friends or my european friends, they just laugh. You know, everything is way more expensive here, way more private schools, certainly yeah I've, oh, I told my son like dude, if you go to a state school, I will buy you a car, not a new car, but a car. I will pay for a car for you, which will save me probably 150 to 200 000 dollars.
Andy Heise:Oh, you know, a car.
Matthew Polenzani:You know this is where we're at and I thank god he's actually thinking. He's thinking of going on that track. I don't want to take anything away from him because he's a really good student who works really hard and I want him to get the best education he can get. But I do believe that he can get a great education. There's two or three state universities, and probably more than that here in New York anyway, that he would be absolutely in great hands.
Andy Heise:Matthew, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions, and the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an art entrepreneur?
Matthew Polenzani:oh, I hate to say it because we talked about it. I. I really think the most important thing for you to do is to fill up your life with things that are meaningful and useful and so that your art, in turn, gets full. This is the most. I can't say it enough. I mean, like I get asked all the time you spend so much time away from your wife, how come you guys are so happy?
Matthew Polenzani:And, of course, the standard joke is obviously we spend all the time apart. But that's not it, you know. It's that we worked hard to build something, and I work hard with my children, I work hard with my friends, I make sure that I'm in touch with them, I make sure that my life is full, so that when I go to my art I have something to say and that I don't think can be overstated or, uh, or overestimated the worth of that. You. You can't, you can't get anything more out of yourself, um, if you haven't been able to find meaning and deep friendship and deep love with the people around you. And so that's my answer to that question.
Nick Petrella:What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?
Matthew Polenzani:Oh, I hate to say it because we talked about this too. Yeah, sure, the way we educate our kids and it doesn't. We're not talking, obviously, just about opera, we're talking about every kind of music jazz music, classical music, pop music I mean, like the way we educate our kids um will help ensure the success of our art forms. Later we have to teach them how to love it. Here's a great little example In the 70s and 80s, when Johnny Carson, this great late night host and most of the kids who are listening to this probably won't, but he's worth figuring, taking a look at YouTube on because he was fabulous.
Matthew Polenzani:He was David Letterman or Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy Fallon or Conan O'Brien or whatever your late night host at Stephen Colbert, your late night host of choice. He was those guys. Before they were those guys. In the seventies and eighties, an opera singer was a guest host for him. Opera occupied enough of a space in the public consciousness that an opera singer could host and people knew who she was.
Matthew Polenzani:We have to continue to educate our kids so that they understand that this is an interesting and valid and beautiful art form that's worthy of pursuit and worthy of glory and worthy of love, worthy of glory and worthy of love. And if we educate the kids, if we teach them about how it is that an opera singer could stand on a stage in a 4,000 seat theater and fill the whole hall with their voice without benefit of microphone. That's a I. That's a big thing. Training the voice to make a sound that covers a 70 or 80 or a hundred piece orchestra, that's a big thing. Training the voice to make a sound that covers a 70 or 80 or 100-piece orchestra, that's a big deal. We have to educate these kids and teach them about why it's valid and this, I think, will be the seeds of how we'll continue to grow.
Andy Heise:Sure. Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've ever been given?
Matthew Polenzani:hmm, um, artistic, I would say, and this would. This lends itself to the entrepreneurial side because, yeah, we talked a little bit about building brand. But for me it was different, because opera was different and we didn't have the same social media outlets that we had when I was on my way up. But I was given a piece of advice which I've tried hard to live by, and that was for me as a singer sometimes the weight of the opera is on your shoulders and other times it's not. You could still be singing a leading character, the leading tenor part, but have the action being driven by completely other people. So a great conductor said to me once hey, listen, you need to find one or two or three titles, if you can, and make sure you get them once a year so that you can go and not have to carry the weight. You can go and not be the guy who, if you're doing Romeo and Juliet, well, you're going to know the weight's on your shoulders. You're going to carry the weight the whole night along with the Juliet. Or if you're singing the tales of Hoffman and you're the Hoffman, well, hate to tell you, but you're going to shoulder the weight the whole night. But for example, in Don Giovanni, the character that I sing in Don Giovanni, the main tenor lead, he's a guy who, if another character doesn't exist, we don't meet him. He's that tangential to the story, you know. And so the vocal load and the dramatic load is completely different and for me these parts of Don Giovanni was that part for a long time and now I can't get Don Giovanni anymore because I'm too old and they should be giving it to young singers. I had that benefit as a younger singer and I want younger singers to have that benefit, even though I could still sing Don Giovanni today, absolutely. But they should be giving it. These parts should be given to young singers. So I've had to change my list over the years but I've tried very hard to keep some pieces around so that while I was working I could be relaxing. And I'm lucky this year and my agent has made it clear to me that he thinks that it was planned. It wasn't, it didn't work out, it just worked out. But I mean, like this year, I told you I learned one opera, madame Butterfly, which I sang just now in January and February and March, and I have it again in Madrid this summer and I have it in Barcelona in the early winter and while I'm singing that, I can be studying other things without much work, and in fact, my family is going to come with me to Madrid this summer, and that was great. I mean, yeah, that's a big financial outlay, but I don't know when I can get them back there, when I'll be singing something like Madam Butterfly, which costs me very little, so I can actually do some things with them and have some fun with them while I'm doing it.
Matthew Polenzani:Advice and of course, the entrepreneurial side of that, obviously is that, in order to build your brand, um, if you're lifting the weight all the time, you will wear yourself out. And if you're singing only operas where you're the guy all the time or you're the woman all the time because that's true there's if you're singing la tra, well, the woman carries the weight in that show, the whole show, traviata, it's her. If you're singing that all the time, you're going to ruin yourself. So, finding some parts that you can sing will help you not only expand your brand, but it'll help you take a break along the way while you're getting paid to do it.
Andy Heise:Yeah it's great.
Matthew Polenzani:So that's my advice.
Nick Petrella:Well, Matt, thanks so much for fitting us in your busy schedule. It's been great hearing your passion, your focus on your family and your desire for lifelong learning.
Matthew Polenzani:Yeah, yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It's great to meet you both.
Andy Heise:Thanks, Matthew.
Announcer:Thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please subscribe. Visit arts entrepreneurship podcastcom to learn more about our guest and how you can help support artists, the arts and this podcast. You.