Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#262: Eddie Tuduri (Drummer) (pt. 1 of 2)
This week on the podcast is part one of our interview with Eddie Tuduri. You may not recognize his name, but we guarantee you’ve heard him perform! Eddie’s career spans 50 years and he’s played drums with many well known bands including The Beach Boys, Dr. John, Ike Turner, Martha Reeves, Steve Perry, Dwight Yoakam and Michael McDonald to name a few. In addition to his performing career, Eddie’s devoted his life to charitable causes and has been given many awards for his contributions to those with disabilities and impoverished children around the world. In 1997, after a life-changing surfing accident, he founded The Rhythmic Arts Project, a nonprofit 501c3 that educates individuals with intellectual and developmental differences by embracing a curriculum that uses rhythm to address life and learning skills as well as reading, writing and arithmetic. We hope you'll join us for our interview with this selfless and inspiring musician. https://traplearning.org/
Hear how a childhood dream beat out a path to stardom, the sacrifices made along the way, and the rich tapestry of life as a musician that Eddie weaves for us, from his first wedding gig at twelve to the powerful educational outreach through The Rhythmic Arts Project. Discover the life of a musician navigating the waters of fame and anonymity, the definition of success, and the unvarnished truths of the working-class artist. Eddie's journey encapsulates the bittersweet symphony of the music industry, and it's one that resonates with anyone who has ever chased a dream.
Hi everyone, nick Petrella here. This episode is sponsored by Steve Weiss Music, percussion specialist since 1961. If you're looking for a rare piece of sheet music, a specialty gong or anything percussion, steve Weiss Music will have it. Please visit SteveWeissMusic. com or click their link in the show notes. That's S-T-E-V-E-W-E-I-S-S Music. com. Our percussion series sponsor.
Announcer:Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making art work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service is not an applied endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise and I'm Nick Petrella.
Nick Petrella:Today we have a legendary musician joining us. You may not know the name, Eddie Tuduri, but I guarantee you've heard him perform. Eddie's career spans 50 years and he's played drums with many well-known bands in multiple styles of music, including the Beach Boys, dr John Ike Turner, martha Reeves, steve Perry, dwight Yochum and Michael McDonald, to name a few. In addition to his performing career, Eddie's devoted his life to charitable causes and has been given many awards for his contributions to those with disabilities and impoverished children around the world.
Nick Petrella:In 1997, after a life-changing surfing accident, he founded the Rhythmic Arts Project, a non-profit 501c3 that educates individuals with intellectual and developmental differences by embracing a curriculum that uses rhythm to address life and learning skills, as well as reading, writing and arithmetic. We'll have your sights in the show notes so you can learn more about Eddie and the Trap Program. Before we begin, I want to give a shout-out to our friends Steve Armstrong and Sean LaFrenze for helping to arrange this interview. Eddie, it's an honor to have you on the podcast and we're looking forward to your comments on the for-profit and non-profit spaces in the arts.
Eddie Tuduri:Thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate it. It's always a thrill for me to get to talk about what we do, what we accomplish here, and the more visibility the better for us, the more souls we touch.
Nick Petrella:Absolutely.
Eddie Tuduri:So when coming up.
Nick Petrella:You're welcome. So when coming up with questions, I was reminded of the quote the days are long, but the years are short. Is that what it feels like after performing for 50 years?
Eddie Tuduri:Absolutely. Yeah, that's a great quote. I had to get a little thought, but oh my God, it's the right spot on it is. As I look back over it, I can hardly believe it's been this long and there's so much that's happened. So, yeah, great quote. I wrote that down. So I have to write everything down and I don't remember that this age.
Andy Heise:Eddie, for listeners who might aspire to be a career musician like yourself, can you tell us how you got started and when you realized you could make a living by playing the drums?
Eddie Tuduri:That's a multifaceted question. Yes, it is. It's a lot. Yeah, I took a few notes, but at nine years old I already knew what I wanted to be when I grew up. I started taking lessons at ten years old and got my first set at around the same time, my first drum set, A piece at a time. My parents were supportive but careful to create incentives along the way If I did well, if my lesson went well, if I showed them I was practicing. I mean, first I got a snare drum, then I got a bass drum and I'd get a tub. So they built that as I continued to learn and show them how inspired I was because I was so young.
Eddie Tuduri:You know, kids go through things in five minutes. I want to be a fireman, I want to be whatever. So I've always in fact I've almost felt guilty about it at times Like, wow, I'm a young kid, this is what I want to do, there's nothing else on the plate in my head, that's it. I want to be a drummer. So alright, that's okay. So I began taking lessons every week at around ten years old. Twelve years old, I played my first gig at a wedding. My dad had to kind of fix my winds or not, and drive me to a gig. I'll never, ever forget that. Of course, it just escalated from there. It never changed. My path never changed In respect to knowing when I thought I would make a living playing drums. I had no idea.
Eddie Tuduri:Playing throughout my teens led to so many distractions Girls, drugs, people, places and things. You get absorbed in such buffoonery and amusements that you begin to wonder why you played an instrument in the first place. When the fun and parties consume your thoughts and dedication to the art, if you will, it's a toss up for a while and some of us fall by their wayside. I'd say for me it wasn't until I was in my early twenties when I thought that I might have a chance at working as a musician for the rest of my life. I began looking up to so many players on every instrument and I wanted what they had confidence and determination. You could see it on their faces and hear it in their playing. I wanted that more than anything. I knew I'd have to step up up from where I was, and I did. I had many influences, players on every instrument Barry Frosty Smith. The guitar player was Chris Pinnock, danny Weas, ted Green, jill Campezi, keyboard players, piano and beatle. He's all shaped my pocket. He was grooves over time.
Andy Heise:Great. So you said early 20s you were playing. Were you playing with one group or were you kind of gigging around at that point?
Eddie Tuduri:At that point I had moved to California. I'm from Derby, connecticut. It's a small municipality in Connecticut. It's like 60 miles from the Bronx In Derby. I was absolutely the best drummer in Derby. I was also the only drummer in Derby. I was so building confidence. It wasn't too difficult at that age and in that place.
Eddie Tuduri:As soon as I started getting on the road and running into real players and older folks and people who were a lot more accomplished, it was scary. I still had confidence enough to feel that I would get there. But when you started hitting the Midwest and seeing these guys playing in bars and these guys on the weekend are shredding, they're amazing. Then you moved to LA. I felt like if I don't get it together, I'm going to have to open a shoe store because the players are on such a level, they're so interesting, they're so accomplished.
Eddie Tuduri:I fell into a good group of people. I went out there with a band. The band broke up soon after we got to California. We worked in a few clubs where I met other people who were just phenomenal, not only on their instruments but as human beings, who took me under wearing, who didn't discourage me. They rather encouraged me because I was scared. I'll never play like that guy, I'll never get into this band, I'll never be blah, blah, blah. That kind of stuff just drives you crazy, whatever the profession, I'm sure. But I met some really great people and they helped me considerably to feel good about myself, to practice, to step up, to do better, you know, to feel that confidence and dedication and to hear it in my playing, you know, and I started feeling that and I was allowed. You know that people would invite me.
Eddie Tuduri:But Frosty was one of my favorite drummers ever. He played with Lee Michaels way back in the day and then with some in Rare Earth and some in the other groups. There was a group in town called Sweathog. Sweathog was the baddest group around. They played in a little club on the Interble of Art called Chronicle and everybody went there, everybody you can, I mean from Stevie Wonder and Dr Johnson. You look around the room and go oh my God. And Frosty was the drummer in this band when he played the whole stage. Sure, he was so powerful he was. So he was just to me he was one of the most perfect drummers I ever heard.
Eddie Tuduri:Now I was 22 maybe at that time and all these, the greatest players in the world would come to this club and wait all night for the chance that maybe he would sit in right, maybe for the last couple of songs they'd let people sit in. I don't know why, but Frosty took a liking to me and he knew I could play and he knew what I was capable of. So he told the band I want this guy to sit in, but you need to play this kind of a song, something that I know he'll be really good at. And that's what happened. I'd sit in and I'd play and feel first of all, just to get on that stage and sit behind his drum. At my age I was just beside myself and I played. And every time I played I played pretty good, didn't play anything intricate Mostly songs were just pocket songs but I really knew and learned about that. So I always walked away, people clapping wow and support is so important, isn't it?
Eddie Tuduri:Oh God, it was everything. I walked away and thinking, man, I just nailed it with the grown-ups. Oh my God, yeah so yeah, that's amazing. So that's, basically good.
Nick Petrella:Sure, yeah, I was just gonna say that's all positive and very important, especially at that age, but kind of. The next question is I know it wasn't always grins and giggles over the years, right? So I'm sure it'd be valuable for our younger listeners just to hear how you've handled difficult situations when touring or when there were artistic differences, say in a band.
Eddie Tuduri:Well, what I have to say to that is that talent is like hate Without work. It evades us nothing, nothing but ego. Nothing is less but ego. If you're afraid, if you're feeling afraid of making your way in any group situation, you just you need to check your ego at the door. If you've been playing together for a long time with your group, then we can assume that you're probably good friends. If you're good friends, get past the artistic differences and just play. Just play your instrument, enjoy it, enjoy your friends, enjoy the group. That's why big bands are so important. Of course, they were family, but they all got along. They played together for a very long time. They played together for a long time because they liked each other, they listened to each other, they contributed to the whole. So if you're just starting out, think about your ego. Think about how they can just ruin everything because of everything and that's why I think that's a great thing Because of attitude or ego. That's a hard lesson to learn, but I think it's a century.
Andy Heise:I'm thinking especially when artists are starting out and trying to prove themselves, you know, and how I can imagine that notion of checking your ego would be particularly difficult.
Eddie Tuduri:It is because we all want to show off. We go home and practice something and then want to come out and play it on the kid and show everybody how good we are and then we blow it. No, that's it. I mean, it's really hard enough to try to surround yourself with people like minds, like endeavors, and musically you know. And the thing about making a living playing is that you really need to.
Eddie Tuduri:When I first got here, I was a rhythm and blues drummer. You know, that's what I did. And then I learned very quickly I better learn how to play every genre. One of the first big games I got was with the Beach Boys. I honestly didn't know how to play that kind of a groove, that kind of a straight ahead floor on the floor and then not behind the beat but in the beat or on top of it. And thank God, ricky Fattar is an incredible drummer producer. He's been with Bonnie right now for many years. He was the second drummer in the Beach Boys.
Eddie Tuduri:Carl was a friend of mine. I had been doing recessions with him but he wanted me to come on the road with the band because Ricky played every instrument in the band. We're going to let him get up and play steel, play any number of other instruments. And I said, yes, I'll do it In rehearsals. I thought I'm really in trouble. Carl heard me in the studio. He loved my playing. He thought that now this guy's a shoe in, not so, not so.
Eddie Tuduri:So what I asked? I said, ricky, can you sit next to me? We'll have two drummers. I'll just follow, because I don't really understand the grooves. Excuse me, but I really don't, so would you help me? He said absolutely the nicest guy in the business, ricky. And so I followed everything he played and it sounded great with two drummers. I had played with two drummers before with Dennis Kenmore in a group called Pollution, with Dobie Gray and Todd Galvega back in the 60s. So it sounded really good. And I asked Carl. I said Carl, I asked Ricky if it was okay. He said yeah. I said why don't we just continue with two drummers and do the tour like that? Everybody liked the idea and the truth of the matter was I really couldn't play the tunes myself properly and Ricky, I was following everything Ricky did and there were some articles about wow, the B-Square's have two drummers. It sounds great and they would try to give me credit for it. But the truth was I kind of didn't play very well, so Ricky saved me and two drummers sounded great with it.
Andy Heise:Along those same lines has most of your drumming career. Has it been as like a hired gun in that circumstance, or as a member of a band?
Eddie Tuduri:I've been a member of many bands. My band, pocket, has been together since the 80s. I had a band called Uncle FatBat that started in Canada. I moved around a lot of them from cities and states and countries and I always put bands together. They were always rhythm and blues bands. I chose all the best players and I got a call from Danny Weiss to move to Canada and play with him and Michael Fanfaro two of my idols from the 60s from the band Rhinoceros. That's before your time. Well gosh, he played. Danny played with everybody from Bette Midler and Alice Cooper and each other along those. He's a funk player, michael Fanfaro is a B3 player.
Eddie Tuduri:They said look, come on up here and check it out, see if you want to do this gig. I got on a plane. I went up there. I heard one stat and I said I love this band. I have to do the band. It was called the Lakers and they were very popular in Canada. There's so many groups up there we never heard of. They're great. This band one of them. And the guy said well, if you want to gig, you have to be here next week. I rushed home and packed everything I owned and moved to Canada in a week. But those bands the point is, those bands no one ever heard of. There's a million bands like that Pockets and Uncle Fatback. We had a fusion group called Scratch. That was a great band with a lot of terrific players, but no one ever heard of them. Those were the bands where I really felt the best, that I really had a stay in the matter, that I was writing with the other players.
Eddie Tuduri:And it really felt great. It really felt like my own. That doesn't happen. If you only did that, then you wouldn't make enough money to pay the rent. I did. I mean, people ask me sometimes what do you feel is success? Is you're successful? I said well, to me, success in the music business is, for me, as a drummer, having played drums and paid the rent my whole life that's success.
Nick Petrella:Yeah.
Eddie Tuduri:Half of the time I was broke as a bag of glass, but you know I always dusted myself off and kept moving forward. You kept. You know I made it. I made it in my mind. That's great. I still have a roof over my head. I don't miss any meals. Yeah, and people like me, they really like me.
Nick Petrella:That's great, that's great. Well, speaking of the music business, what are the realities of the music business for those who want to break into it, that you know they may not realize?
Eddie Tuduri:I value my musical heroes. Most folks do so. Many musicians and artists inspire me. My life is more prosperous because of their prowess and unique expression. Looking at my more than 60 years in rock and roll, you might say he's been there and done that. But I beg to differ. Musicians like me comprise 99 percent of the working class players so, with respect, my experience would differ immensely from the Hall of Famers. Only a select few reach that level of success. The luxury, the fame, privilege and reverence are far from the busy crowd of musical worker bees who strive to make ends meet and the music business Sidemen and Women who pack a lunch and go to work like everyone else, day in and day out. We play on CDs, songwriter demos, live recordings, tv shows, commercials and movie scores. Others find themselves touring on a bus, van or station wagon for months. So you know this idea about making it in the business and being in a hit band or a big band. They are few and far between, regardless of your prowess, regardless of who you are, who you know, where you've been and all of that. Some of us like me, and I consider myself one of these Sidemen in the business.
Eddie Tuduri:I played with a lot of big acts and toured with a lot of big acts. You know my friend, vinny Caliuto, who's possibly the number one drummer in the world, plays, has played or played with everybody, starting with Frank Zappa, when he was early 20s. He's a genius. Everyone admires Vinny, his playing, his everything about it. He was one of the guys. We were all a bunch of us road dogs more or less. We were at a restaurant maybe seven or eight of us and we were talking about being on the road, what that was like. And I mean there are times you pick up in a limousine, you know you're eating duck under a glass and you're staying in beautiful hotels and you're playing for 100,000 people and people are screaming. And then you go home, you know, and you take out the garbage like the rest of us. That's right. Vinny said you know, man, I'll sum it up for all of us it's like going from God to God. He's right. I mean you come home and you're back to your normal existence and working to find the next gig. What's the next thing? Vinny never worried about the next gig, but guys like me did, and I did pretty well, I worked all the time. But you know it's, I had a gig. I worked with JD Saldar. Jd was a songwriter, is a songwriter, a great songwriter. He wrote so many Eagles tunes. With the guys I joined his band we were special guests of the Eagles on the 76th tour, a Hotel California tour. That was big, really. Yeah, it was really big.
Eddie Tuduri:First four nights were sold out at the farm in LA Limos you know, duck under glass, not really and champagne you know. All the whole night and what I did. I had this little bar I used to play at in the past, the Dean and Hazel's bar. It was an awful little vibe but everybody went there and hung out in blues, bands played and they made like 40 bucks. So when I took the job with the Eagles we had those four dates. Then we were Wednesday, thursday, friday, saturday sold out at the farm. Then we had Monday, tuesday, wednesday and we left town on Thursday for a long tour. On that Wednesday night I took a gig at Hazel's bar for 40 bucks because I knew after this extravaganza on the road with those guys I'd never see them again. But Hazel's bar is still there.
Nick Petrella:That's great yeah.
Eddie Tuduri:We have to remember you know and not let our heads get too big. And remember that you know the world isn't going to change because of one side man gig, because you're on a limo today, so just persistence, delivering all the time and auditioning, even at a certain level.
Eddie Tuduri:you need to audition for Gary. I mean, the last gig, one of the last gigs I did before I broke my neck was with Jimmy Messina from Laganza Messina. You guys might remember Jimmy was. Jimmy was great. He was a great guitar player. He was one of the inspirations in my playing was playing with guitar players who I could communicate with and help me, and he was one of those guys the excellent songwriter, singer, arranger, producer.
Eddie Tuduri:That was one of those gigs that you know, you almost feel like you're in the band and they should feel like you're in the band. We did a wonderful record, one of the best records I ever made, and then when it was over, I didn't see Jimmy for almost 20 years. So I mean, it's a fickle business. Sometimes you make friends that last forever. Sometimes you just do one or two days with somebody and they're gone, and if we had the right attitude we'd learn and we'd progress. Well, nowadays Jimmy and I are really good friends again, which is wonderful to me. So I guess I don't know where I was going with that exactly.
Andy Heise:Yeah, that's good. So, eddie, this next question is a little more of like nuts and bolts kind of question. So all these gigs that you were doing with all these different bands, how did you manage your like, how did you manage your finances and your time and things like that? Is that something that you did yourself or did you hire people that helped you with some of those?
Eddie Tuduri:things. I had accountants who did my taxes and that was about it. I really didn't make a tremendous amount of money. I made a fair, passable income, but it wasn't anything tremendous that I really had and a lot of musicians if we're working in Hazel's Bar, for instance, I'm not going to claim that, you're not going to tell the IRS or anything.
Andy Heise:They don't listen to this show. No.
Eddie Tuduri:Well, I mean, there's a lot of gigs you do for 20 bucks or 40 bucks or something C-note you know, probably a statute of limitations. Well, we're living hand to mouth sometimes. Yeah, sure.
Andy Heise:Yeah, it'd be spent before you even got home.
Eddie Tuduri:So I'm not going to give Uncle Sam half of my tuna sandwich.
Andy Heise:They won it though.
Eddie Tuduri:They want that. I know they do. Yeah, they get you yeah.
Andy Heise:So you get those gigs, you'd work with your accountant and then whatever.
Eddie Tuduri:Basically yeah, and I'd have friends who helped me.
Andy Heise:Sure.
Eddie Tuduri:Yeah, people who People in the same.
Andy Heise:People that had been through it before. Yeah.
Eddie Tuduri:Yeah, exactly. So you know with me it wasn't that hard to manage. You know a lot of these tours you do and bands. I mean I was in a band called Boxer. It was an English rock and roll band and that was a real band. We recorded and had. You know, we had some notable. I did not not a lot, but we signed a record deal for $2,200,000, something like that. Let's see, get us London. That doesn't show up in my pocket or in my bank account. You know, that's Right.
Eddie Tuduri:You know, I got like £150 living in England a week and that was a lot of money back in the mid-60s. Oh yeah, you know, we acted like we had money and we were rock stars, we actually there was a tad of that, but Sure yeah, it was never. I guess the point is there was never that much to really look after or report by the time you're finished with your expenses.
Andy Heise:Sure, yeah Well, and I would imagine a lot of expenses are probably covered by part of the tour right, the whatever hotels and food and things like that.
Eddie Tuduri:Yeah, we're kind of taking care of for All of it is yeah, and you know your airfare, your hotels, the limos, all of that is paid for by the record company. And more kind of a deal your manager negotiated with the company and we never really knew. As many managers as I've had, I never really knew how much of that money went into their pockets, Never Sure. When you're young and somebody says I'm going to make you a star, I mean we've all heard the story. But it's absolutely true. Stein here and Stein, Stein, Stein.
Announcer:So it's hard, it's really hard to get anyone advice.
Eddie Tuduri:who's young and it's these a record company executive or talent, and someone finding talent and says you know, we can make you a star If you're 22 years old and you're thinking, wow man, I'm in Hollywood, this guy's a big agent and he's going to make me a. Where do I sign? Yeah, you know it happens every day. Yeah, it's you.
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