Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#277: Wayne Messmer (singer, speaker, broadcaster, author, & actor) (pt. 2 of 2)
Today we released part two of our interview with serial arts entrepreneur Wayne Messmer. He’s a singer, speaker, broadcaster, author, and actor. Wayne is also a member of SAG/AFTRA and the National Speakers Association, and has held a professional association with the Chicago Cubs since 1985.
Outside of the arts, Wayne is part owner of the Chicago Wolves hockey team and co-owner of the financial services firm, Wayne Messer and Associates.
Regardless of your career goals, you'll benefit from hearing the wisdom Wayne has learned from his many decades as an arts entrepreneur! https://waynemessmer.com/
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making art work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heiss and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy.
Nick Petrella:Heiss and I'm Nick Petrella. Joining us today is serial entrepreneur Wayne Messmer. He's a professional singer, speaker, broadcaster, author and actor. He's a professional member of SAG-AFTRA and the National Speakers Association and has held a professional association with the Chicago Cubs since 1985. With the Chicago Cubs since 1985. Wayne is also part owner of the Chicago Wolves hockey team and co-owner of the financial services firm Wayne Mesmer Associates. We'll link to Wayne's website in the show notes so you can read more about his fascinating career. Wayne, thanks for being on the podcast.
Wayne Messmer:It is my delight to be with you guys. I know people of similar ilk. We always try to flock together and come up with a conversation that has some meaning.
Andy Heise:Can I ask about the Chicago Wolves and how that came about? Like why did someone come to you and say, hey, would you do this feasibility study? Was that something you had experience doing? Or like I'm just curious, like how do you go from singing at a game to being oh, I bet that guy, how do you go from singing at a at a game to being oh, I bet that guy could do a feasibility study for hockey team? You know how did what's? What's that?
Wayne Messmer:story. You know, just good fortune, that the guy who was involved in the conversation, a former blackhawks player, um, had two other guys, one of which had the, had the money, and he said you know? And he said would you be interested in like talking to us about this with you know, like some ideas? Cause here's what we're thinking about. Well, okay, I guess, why not? You know, so here I go, naive me. I sit down at a, at a conference table, and I'm the only guy taking notes. You know me, I sit down at a conference table and I'm the only guy taking notes, but nobody's asking me for money. So okay, so I'm liking this so far.
Wayne Messmer:And the meeting's over and they say, well, what do you think? And I say, well, first of all, I, you know I'm thinking right away, let's see, the success of this project hinges on how well I can do without using my own money. Yeah, I like that combo, yeah, you know, and it just made a whole lot of sense. I mean, I sat down and wrote a marketing plan, wrote a business plan, wrote a game presentation outline, did a full staff directory outline with job descriptions directory outline with job descriptions uh, you know the whole bit, and sat down and worked with. Well, I did all of that. And then in the process, uh, you know, sat with the guy who developed the logo. Uh, you know, I mean, there was virtually nothing that I wasn't touching except the, you know, the, the hockey end of it. And uh, you know, suddenly you think, well, you know what, maybe I'm not as dumb as I look, you know, and uh, I'll, I'll go along with it and let's see if we can keep fooling them. And uh, you know, next thing, I knew, here we are. When was that? That was in 1993. I knew, here we are, and when was that? That was in 1993. So it was like October or November of 93. And then we launched it in October of 94.
Wayne Messmer:So that was kind of fun, you know, and sitting down and uh, uh, interviewing and hiring a staff of 52 people in a couple of weeks, you know, and then running day-to-day operations. But having the good sense, and I man, I, I wish I was as smart as I am. Lucky, because in the original agreement I wrote after three years and this thing is, is, uh, is floating and doing well, I want the option to be able to step out of the day-to-day operations and uh and maintain a, uh, a voting position as uh, uh, you know, as a voting position, as a, you know as a, as a original founder, founding partner for life. Yeah, yeah, wow, all right. Now, I mean, during the pandemic, for example, none of us attended games, there was no crowd, nothing. Every two weeks I still got the check, yeah, you know, that's so huge. Same with the financial company. So I mean I, I've been fortunate to put the dominoes in the right place, right now for the listeners.
Nick Petrella:So you do have a music education degree, but I think you also have, is it finance, psychology? What else is there?
Wayne Messmer:because there's yeah, psychology on a master's and a phd? Yeah, yeah, so, and why, I don't know. I mean, I thought, um, my, my guy was a, the character played by bob newhart dr robert hartley, you know, in the bob newhart show, and he was a psychologist, lived in chicago, you know, and I figured, okay, that's maybe the role I'm going to like ease into. And, uh, you know, be downtown and do all of that and uh, you know, so that that became kind of my, what I thought was my career path, uh, interrupted by radio opportunities, interrupted by music, um, and I, and I don't know, it's funny, because you can never go wrong with studying psychology, right.
Wayne Messmer:Yeah, you use it every day, anytime you interact with people, and even when you're by yourself. I suppose yes, which can be irritating, because then you're analyzing everything, right? Yeah, yeah, it's like. It's like the voiceover, I mean, when you do voice voiceover and you do your own editing. Oh my God, yeah, you know so critical. It's like yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Andy Heise:So throughout your career, there have been countless changes in probably every sector in which you're involved. Do you have any examples of some dramatic changes that have happened over the years and what you did to address those changes?
Wayne Messmer:Well, let's see Changes, changes, changes. I think let's see the audiences change, that's one thing. Your vocal range may slightly be altered. You know, Used to have a high A, natural, and now you know F sharp is pretty much taking care of business. So you like elton john and billy joel, you just change keys, you know. But, um, I think you do have to adapt.
Wayne Messmer:And I talked about references. I, that's one thing too is stay current, stay current. You know, I do a concert, concert. And I point out I'm not going to be doing any Taylor Swift tunes. I hate to break it to you, but I'm aware of her.
Wayne Messmer:You know, it's funny because you do start getting a tremendous appreciation that maybe the hard work that you've done or in my case I've done actually does pay off. I sat down with three guys the other night as we're in the green room readying to go on and do a concert, and I said I'm going to be honest with you guys. I still I'm still kind of shocked to a certain degree. And these are A-list, these are monster players, wonderful players, and as I'm still kind of shocked that you even take my phone call, you know because and they go, what you know, and I'm not saying I'm, you know, trying to bait them to say, oh no, you're terrific. That's not what I was about. I said just you know, appreciate the fact that you know what you do has elevated to a point of where you can work with some pretty heavy dudes, man, and they're happy to do it.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, totally different level of playing oh.
Wayne Messmer:Right, yeah, and you know it's like people say well, how often do you guys get together to practice, right, we've been practicing all our lives. I hate to break it to you, but this group of four has never performed together before. You know this bass player here? Yeah, I got him because my regular guy is, you know, on the road. That's, that's fun too.
Wayne Messmer:Yeah, playing without a net, yeah heightened awareness although I rarely and I shouldn't, nick, I shouldn't tell you this one playing without a net? Yeah, heightened awareness. Although I rarely and I shouldn't tell you, nick, I shouldn't tell you this, but a drummer is usually the last call that I make, not because I don't like it.
Nick Petrella:It was going so well Wayne.
Wayne Messmer:I love drummers and I am a percussive person myself, but it's the piano first, always the keyboard guy, always a bass player and it's always got to be an upright bass, the double bass, the bass fiddle the only way the bass should be played the real bass, exactly yeah. And then a horn player, and I generally work with a guy who is a master of trumpet. Here you go striking close to home Trumpet and flugelhorn. Then I got a guy who plays sax, flute and clarinet tremendously proficiently on all levels. He's 83 years old. I love using this guy, man, because he's still got the chops. He's all of our idols. And then you know, I mean, what's this? Two nights from now, I've got a really nice concert and, yes, I have a very great drummer on the gig. Excellent, I hope I've made it back into your good graces, you did.
Nick Petrella:Good save. All right, andy's a bassist, so he's happy.
Wayne Messmer:Well, there we go, let's get a keyboard player and we've got a bass.
Nick Petrella:So, Wayne, you had an experience that very few people can relate to. Back in 1994, you were shot in the throat during a robbery and you nearly lost the ability to use your voice. You defied the odds through tenacity and perseverance and continued to thrive professionally. What would you tell others who are going through a difficult or traumatic time in their career or personal lives?
Wayne Messmer:Well, you never think that's going to happen to you. You know it happens to other people. You read about it, you hear it on the news. Man, you better dig deep when that happens.
Wayne Messmer:I knew at the moment that that happened as I waited for the ambulance and the police to arrive, that what I do for a living at that point, you know, may have come to an abrupt end, but who I was as a person was not going to change. I needed at some point during the recovery to hang on to something, a life preserver of some kind. I mean being a guy. I mean the fact that I'm able to speak is almost unbelievable. The fact that I'm able to sing is miraculous and nothing short of miraculous Nine millimeter point blank in the neck, you know well, it gave me a tremendous signature story as a speaker. But that's a hell of a way to get a story. And it certainly gave me a lot of notoriety because it was a big news story and everything else in Chicago. But I don't abuse that. I think people don't care about what happened to you. They might want to listen to your story. But what can I learn as a listener? What stories, what lessons can you convey? And I think part of it is always being so totally aware. I mean, for me it was faith, family and friends. That's the, that's the anchor that I had Now, when I was in the recovery end of it, and you know I'm being wheeled down to an exam and they're going to jam me in the tube and look at my neck and I've got, you know, surgery gashed ear to ear and I've got a tracheotomy, I got IVs.
Wayne Messmer:It was, it was stupid. I was so angry, so angry. It was the darkest moment of my life to this point and I grabbed onto three things. I said number one and this is, I think, what I would encourage other people to do is give yourself that reason to live. You know one I said there's no way that they're going to steal the opportunity for me to sing with my wife we, you know she's a really good singer, fine singer, actress, and we met, cast opposite each other, in 1981, for the leads of Kiss Me Kate, which we did, you know.
Wayne Messmer:so nobody's going to steal that from me. And here's where I was trying to find something to keep me from literally imploding because I couldn't speak. I was so angry and so Sing Again with Kathleen 2 was I wanted to at some point if something came back. I wanted to record an album of songs that I like, just because I felt so passionate about music. Ok, the third thing was and you could tell that I was morphined up at the time because this was 1994. And I said if the Cubs ever make it to the World Series, I'd love to sing a World Series. Well, realistically, that was never going to happen. Well, turns out, the voice came back. Thank you, triumphant Returns recorded the album called so Lucky to be Loving you with a magnificent pianist. Yummy, wonderful romantic tunes. And Kathleen and I got to sing again a number of times. But still waiting for the World Series.
Wayne Messmer:October 14th, 1924, 16. October, no, october 30th. October, no, october 30th. Yeah, it was October 4th. I came back six months and five days later, after being shot by the way, to walk out for the first ever Chicago Wolves hockey game. Now that's where I was nervous, but anyway so, october 30th 2016. Game five World Series.
Wayne Messmer:Walsh out onto Wrigley Field, microphone in hand, acapella, god bless America and the National Anthem. The world is watching, the world is watching and I thought, okay, think about the day that particular day Now. And here again, andy. This is kind of back to about the day that particular day Now. And here again, andy. This is kind of back to your question of give me a typical day. This was not at all your typical day. It started at 11 o'clock, a luncheon that for a friend of ours, kathleen, and I sang and we did yummy, great musical stuff. You know some enchanted evening, if ever I would. You know that kind of stuff, full voice stuff, and so that was cool. And I'm thinking, okay, I was thinking back to that dark moment. Man, that was one thing that I refused to ever let up.
Wayne Messmer:We get in the car, drive off out to the Allstate Arena near O'Hare for a Chicago Wolves hockey game, 16,000 people there. I walk out on the same carpet that I had walked out on years ago and sang because I thought, man, one of the things was if the Wolves. I was thinking back in 94, when we just started, we hadn't even played a game yet. I just want that, for all the hard work that I put in, I want that to be a success. So here we are, 22 years later. I'm looking around thinking, yeah, this is a success.
Wayne Messmer:And sang. Same day. Then we get into the car and drive into the city and go to Wrigley Field for an eight o'clock World Series game. And after I was done singing, I came back and sat down and you know, kathy's looking at me and I'm just like I'm a mess. Oh, I bet. And she said what that was. You know, that was great. Wow, you're so emotional. And I said, yeah, think about this. Yeah, what we did today, those are the three things that kept me from losing my mind at the worst moment of my life, and today I was able to do all three of those. So it was kind of like if I could put a bow on my life and make a neat little package. That was it.
Nick Petrella:I am so, so grateful it's a great story ending, yeah.
Andy Heise:And I think you've talked about this but how did that experience change your career or impact your career, your perspective on what you do?
Wayne Messmer:I think, because I have now done I don't know what other bucket list items I can possibly do. You know, I did a bucket list at age 18, checked off everything did. One at 25 checked it off, one at 40 checked it off, you know. And now it's just a matter of do you do the the same thing? Well, again. Well, here's, here's the attitude that I have on on. That is every day I wake up.
Wayne Messmer:You know, there's a great phrase again, I know, and I'm a master of the of of the cliche, but sometimes you will never know the true value of a moment until it becomes a memory. It's like Whoa, in other words, you weren't there. Yeah, you weren't fully in that moment. If it doesn't, if you don't appreciate it right, then I'll'll do. For example, you know I got a thing tonight to sing.
Wayne Messmer:I approach it like, you know, if I had the opportunity to do that just one more time, you know like to come back to do that one more time, I might try a little harder, I might be a little I don't know friendlier. I don't know I could be more friendly. I'm kind of ridiculous already, but you know. You know what I mean. Yeah, because then you're just in total absorption of living in the moment, and it comes out that way. You know, the response is certainly like that, but you know, if I had a chance to do that just one more time, yeah, okay, ball game tomorrow. Yeah, I wish I could do just one more Cubs game. Well, go do it.
Andy Heise:Yeah, you know it sounds. It sounds like it's the reflective exercise, kind of thinking back and really absorbing that experience and saying, just reframing it as something to aspire to do again.
Wayne Messmer:Well, no one has the experience that you do, because they don't have the skill set, they don't have the background they don't have. Whether it's the experience that you do, because they don't have the skill set, they don't have the background they don't have, whether it's the voice or the talent, or that's exactly the same, sure. So, distinguish yourself, you know, dare to be different, try to be the best you possibly can.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, what do you think is the most difficult aspect of juggling everything that you do?
Wayne Messmer:professionally maintaining a healthy golden goose, you know, taking care for me, taking care of my voice and my ability to speak and think and sing and walk and talk and all of those things. You know to constantly be ready, even when either the phone rings or you reach out for an opportunity. You just want to be set to go. That's a big thing. I mean there's fear. I mean there's going to be a day where you just can't cut it anymore. That's the beauty of having a a, as we say, how to be sure I'm plowing the right field and have a number of different crops growing at the same time. You know, I mean I I'm probably not going to make major leagues as a ball player, you know, so I got to set that aside, but I can be on the major league field singing you know Absolutely Well, wayne.
Andy Heise:We've reached the part of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions, and the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an art entrepreneur?
Wayne Messmer:I would say find your purpose, and I think I've already mentioned that. But I think you really find our purpose in life by identifying and cultivating our passion. And it might not be what you think it is that you go along. You know, I've always wanted to be a such and such. Well, have you thought of supporting others who do that better than you? You know what I mean. It's whatever it might be. I think being a good audience is a is a great gift to a performer. Man, oh man, you know people say I can't carry a note, well, we've got enough competition. So, but the fact that you know people say I can't carry a note, well, we've got enough competition. But the fact that you know you've come up to me and said these kind words I take to heart. So you know, give as much as you take as a performer, but be that supportive audience member, I think is very, very important.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, what can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching?
Wayne Messmer:the widest possible audience. Be true to yourself, be true to your art, maintain a respect for it, help people to learn to love what it is that you and others do. I think that's probably the big thing. You know, man, I've never enjoyed this kind of music until you introduced me to it. I mean, that's a nice thing. I tried to do that with the radio show. I tried to do that with the radio show Sure, and you know, also encourage spoken word like that. But just, I don't know. Impress people without trying to show off, yeah, I mean quality, and artistic quality speaks for itself. You don't have to. You don't have to stand there and do chest thumping, right. Yeah, some people feel they need to, as you say in Chicago public schools.
Andy Heise:That ain't me. Lastly, what's the best, artistic or entrepreneurial advice anyone's ever given you.
Wayne Messmer:well, I think it's the uh. Being true to who you are, uh, trying to be the best you, as possible, work at your craft. But I encourage people all the time and I got this from a dear friend of mine and I use it in my keynote, speaking as really one of the closing lines that I use Take inventory of the special gifts that we all have and remember that they are as a gift. They're fragile and temporary I found that out and as easily as they're given, they can be taken away. So that's why I encourage every person in the arts to use these gifts, respect them and share them.
Nick Petrella:That's great, Wayne. It's great to hear your story and your passion for lifelong learning and creating opportunities. It's very inspirational.
Wayne Messmer:Thank you, thank you. I love what I do and you know it's not an ego statement when I say I fully realize how lucky I am to be me, you know, and I embrace it and I hope that it continues for years, and my mission nowadays, more than anything else, is to try and spread kindness, because, man, do we need that nowadays Absolutely.
Andy Heise:Absolutely. Thanks, wayne, my pleasure.
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