Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#286: Aimon Ali (Founder of Fashion Talks) (pt. 1 of 2)
Today we released part one of our interview with fashion entrepreneur Aimon Ali. Her rich background includes being a fashion runway show producer, stylist and creative director. After moving from Toronto, where she worked in the Canadian fashion industry, she moved to Cleveland where she launched Fashion Talks, a boutique fashion services and events agency with a footprint in Cleveland, NYC and Toronto. https://fashiontalkss.com/
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making art work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heiss and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. I'm Andy Heiss and I'm Nick Petrella.
Nick Petrella:We're really excited to have Aimon Ali with us today. She has a rich background as a fashion entrepreneur, fashion runway show producer, stylist and creative director. After moving from Toronto, where she worked in the Canadian fashion industry, she moved to Cleveland where she launched Fashion Talks, a boutique fashion services and events agency with a footprint in Cleveland, new York City and Toronto. We'll link to Fashion Talks in the show notes so you can see the variety of services and activities the company coordinates. Thanks for being with us, Aimon.
Aimon Ali:Of course. Thank you for having me.
Nick Petrella:Why don't we begin by having you tell us how you first became involved in the fashion industry?
Aimon Ali:Why don't we begin by having you tell us how you first became involved in the fashion industry. For sure, my involvement was not a very direct route because I didn't study fashion. I was actually a psychology major. I was studying psychology in Toronto and on the side me and my friend we really loved fashion and we said you know what, let's see what there is. And we started volunteering in the industry. At that time we would just message designers and ask them if they needed some help backstage if they needed a few extra volunteers, and a lot more people said yes than you would expect into me really working almost at behind the scenes of every major show, like teams being the one that ended up hiring people out of the school. Um, I became a runway producer at that time as well, within the next like three years of that, so it was all while I was still in university. It was quite a interesting turn of events.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, so most of that was in Toronto or other cities.
Aimon Ali:So it was in Toronto mostly, and then the fashion week I was helping ended up expanding to Montreal and Vancouver, and so I went along as a runway show producer.
Aimon Ali:Great Gotcha. Can you just give us a little overview of what some of the responsibilities are of a runway producer team or the designer relations team? And then eventually, when I became runway show producer, I was helping produce the entire event, especially the backstage. So managing the teams, coordinating the model designer, fittings, hair and makeup looks, what looks they're in the volunteer teams, the other vendors, how they're walking the runway, like all of these details, lots of emails, so really the whole backstage behind the scene, a little bit of front of house, but a lot of the model designer, hair and makeup facing tasks.
Andy Heise:Gotcha. So making sure everybody was where they were supposed to be, knew where they were supposed to be, make sure everything was happening.
Aimon Ali:Make sure they're on the runway at the right time. Yeah.
Andy Heise:Yeah, yeah, that's, that's awesome. Um, and so, as Nick mentioned, uh, when you moved, you moved to Cleveland, which we'll talk about that move here in a second Um, can you give us a little overview of what fashion talks is um and what led you to starting it?
Aimon Ali:Sure. So when I it actually is to do with when I moved to Cleveland. So when I moved to Cleveland, I had never been to Cleveland before, and so I did a little bit of a Google research, as everybody does, and I was like Fashion Week, cleveland, what's in Cleveland? Do we have a fashion scene, do we not? And I was working in healthcare and I knew we had that. For sure, we have a lot of hospitals. And so nothing really came up.
Aimon Ali:And the things that did come up were not the same production level as what I was used to in Toronto. Obviously, toronto is a much larger city. We cannot really compare Toronto, new York, even Montreal and Vancouver, and so I didn't really think much of it. I just would network on my own. And this was pre-pandemic and I kept meeting really amazing people that I was like wow, you are so talented, like you're as talented as, like, the top tier people I'm working with in Toronto, and so I would ask them do you want to come work with me in Vancouver or Toronto? It's not far like we have industry and I have events and you know, come work with me. And people would come and they would be very interested and I would always say you know, someone should do something in Cleveland fashion related. I feel like you guys have the talent and I never really thought about it being me. I just kept saying someone should do it. Yeah, I was like you know, somebody should do this. And then I had this idea of wanting to do an event in Cleveland because I hadn't met enough creatives and I was like you know what I'm going to try, and right when I tried, we went into pandemic. So after, during the pandemic, I think it really made me more like I met even more people, virtually that I was like you know what? I'm going to start a business. I'm going to call it Fashion Talks and I'm going to do an actual runway and then expand into other things. I don't know if it's going to work. I see the potential but again, why is no one else in Cleveland doing this? So Fashion Talks is a creative agency.
Aimon Ali:Our main kind of goal was events with real diversity and inclusivity, because that was another thing I was struggling with when I moved here. Cleveland is small but it gets bigger as you get to know it. So you don't see the diversity right away. Sometimes, and especially when you look a certain way it's hard to know what kind of events you're walking into or how people will react or how diverse it is. So that was a really big thing. For me is like I didn't want anybody to feel like I don't know if I can go to that event, I don't know if I'm welcome. So fashion talks was kind of I did it the other way, like I kind of had this idea and I'm like let me just test it and then if it works, I'll work on it. So that's kind of how it became a creative agency of doing events and then services and all of that.
Andy Heise:Great, and there's a nonprofit arm to it as well Fashion Talks Foundation. Yes, can you talk about that relationship and how that came about?
Aimon Ali:So I've been doing Fashion Talks for the last four years. This is our fourth year and in year three, so like two years ago, I I was not hitting a wall, but I was facing some difficulties. There were some things I really wanted to do, but I wasn't able to do them the way I wanted to, or like I was like you know, I would love to get funding because this is really growing, and just I was hitting these roadblocks. And then I met someone who was she's a wonderful mentor, she's my current board chair. Um, she was like have you ever thought about looking into the non-profit world? And I was like, no, I don't know much about it. Come from the business world, come from health care. She's like look into it.
Aimon Ali:And so I looked into it and it I found out that most of the fashion weeks and the fashion organizations I worked with in Toronto were actually non-profits. I just because I was never at that, that wasn't something I had to deal with, I just never knew the legality. And so I started looking into it more and I was like, oh, I think if I go the nonprofit route, I would be able to get a lot more support and do more impact, cause that was something that I kept kind of bringing up in the business world, but it was more nonprofit world, if that makes sense. So the fd foundation is actually very new. It we were kind of we started last year october, so 2023, october was our first. Like we did a small panel, that a women's panel talk on diversity in business with the ritz carlton, and so this year I've been working on it a lot more, but there's a lot more to come from it. But it is very new as compared to fashion talks and the impact and the things I've been doing with fashion talks.
Andy Heise:Yeah.
Nick Petrella:Do you see that aspect of fashion talks growing at a faster rate than the for-profit side, or no?
Aimon Ali:I think so because from october till till now, till our runway that just happened a few weeks ago, at the end of june I've already seen more progress than like what I've been trying to do in the last like three, four years, the last like few months. It was just so much easier to do the same thing, to ask for the same things and to get the support. Like few months, it was just so much easier to do the same thing, to ask for the same things and to get the support. Like it, it was just. It just opened a whole new set of doors for me. And now I'm in that mindset of like okay, let's, how do I, you know, make this impact stronger and learn more about the nonprofit world? Cause I'm, I know all about business, but I'm not from the nonprofit side and it is a little bit different because I know all about business, but I'm not from the nonprofit side and it is a little bit different, Sure.
Nick Petrella:So just let's stay on this for one more minute. How has that shaped your thinking? How has that given you, say, a paradigm shift in the way you approach business?
Aimon Ali:Oh, my God, there are so many shifts happening because you know, you think you know it all, and then something happens and you're like, oh, now I have to not read to, but now I have to learn all of this new right just way of working.
Aimon Ali:And it's not even like for-profit versus non-profit, it's more about, like the people.
Aimon Ali:I need to now communicate with the organizations, I can communicate with um funding, how non-profits work, having a board, like usually if I was in charge, like you know, I'm final say now I have a board and now there's all of these um like very specific things I need to be aware of, and so I think it's a lot more learning and it's definitely opened up a lot more shifts in the sense that I know now that we can make more impact. Now it it's trying to figure out okay, how can we, how can I do that? How do I continue, like I was doing it with fashion talks, because every time I talk to someone or I'm doing some research within like the nonprofit world, I'm like, oh, I already did this, but I was doing it in my for-profit business, which is why it wasn't making sense. So now it's kind of like this, like a little bit of pressure has lifted in the sense that, oh, I'm already doing the thing, but then it's the pressure of now.
Aimon Ali:I just got to shift and make it yeah or the nonprofit world.
Andy Heise:Right yeah, is it an overstatement to say that the nonprofit maybe one of the reasons for that is that the nonprofit is focused on the mission and the impact that you keep referring, that you've been referring to? That's the number one focus, versus doing the production side of things. You know what I mean. Rather than doing the behind-the-scenes stuff, now you're focused more on the mission and of course that has behind-the-scenes aspects, but now that kind of takes a backseat to the mission and the impact.
Aimon Ali:In all honesty, no, because I was already focused on that. The issue was my fashion talks grew so much in the last four years that I needed external help in terms of I need organizations and I needed other. Just brands and partners yeah, and it's harder with a business. Brands and partners yeah, and it's harder with a business. But as soon as I mention I'm a non-profit, there's just a lot more people willing to help me, and that's what I was kind of missing. So we always kind of focused on the mission and even though we were doing like event production and all of that, like, right, the wall was the lack of help to expand. But with a nonprofit I'm like, oh okay, great, you can help me here. This makes sense, like now we can just do it, because I always one thing you'll know is like I always kind of just do the thing and I'm fully confident that I'm going to be able to accomplish whatever I put my mind to. But sometimes I need more than just me, and that was the issue.
Nick Petrella:That's an important lesson yeah. Not to let go.
Andy Heise:And it's you know not to get hung up on this point, but I think it's really interesting. You know, have you? I wonder what would have happened if you would have set out to start a nonprofit before you started the business. You know what I mean. Would you be in the same place you are now, or would all of those things you had to work through to get to the point of starting the nonprofit would have probably been more, I'm guessing, more difficult to do as a nonprofit than just, hey, I'm just going to do this and get started.
Aimon Ali:I think you're right, I think I might have um. In easy terms, I think I might've crashed and burned because I didn't know much Right, and also, remember I was very new to Cleveland. I didn't know anybody here. That itself was a struggle, so and the nonprofit world is a lot of work, um, especially when you're one person that's trying to figure it out and have very small, like you know, board um. So I think that, like, the timing wasn't right, because now, when I'm, like you know, studying and learning and doing all that stuff, when I see things that the nonprofit world mentions or they're like, oh, you need to make an impact rapport, you need to do this and you need to have stats, I'm like, oh, I have that, like I did that.
Aimon Ali:But I just didn't know. It was that. But I think if I had went out to start the nonprofit post-pandemic, I don't think I would have known what I was doing or would have been able to do what I did so fast yeah, and the simplicity of launching the business gave you the proof of concept for what you were doing, which allowed you to get partners on board and get people to trust you and what you were doing and understand the mission behind what you were doing, and all of those things which led you to the founding of the nonprofit.
Nick Petrella:Absolutely, and it's got to be way quicker and easier to pivot in a small for profit.
Aimon Ali:Yes, cause now, kind of like, for example, obviously I'm looking for funding because we have grown and there are things that I need to expand on. And when I look at these applications and they're like, well, we want to see like X, y, z, and I'm like, okay, perfect, I have it in a different setting. Can I just show you Because, like the brand fashion talks is so strong, everybody, a lot of people, really know it. There's all of these like impact examples. There's like I have the stuff, it's just not in nonprofit format, so can I change it up and send it to you? And I think that in itself is very intriguing for a lot of organizations. It's like, oh, she was doing something different and now she's doing this and so we've heard of it or we've seen it or someone we know was part of it. So it kind of gives me a bit a lot more credibility because I'm a new nonprofit with four years of experience technically.
Andy Heise:Right, right, absolutely, absolutely. And so last question on this, I promise Is the Fashion Talks production company a part of the foundation now?
Aimon Ali:No, not yet. That's something that I'm again.
Aimon Ali:it's a transition, I'm not sure where it will take me I'm kind of going with the flow, but at the moment Fashion Talks is a creative agency. We do our events and services that do donate a percentage to the nonprofit, but with the nonprofit I have like larger national plans and hope to do a lot more. So I mean, maybe one day they'll be the same, maybe they'll never be the same I'm I thought about it for too long and I was like I'm you know what we need to move? I need to move on that's right.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, yeah, well, so this didn't come up. But I mean, could, could you be a fiscal sponsor for the business side? Well, the nonprofit could own the for-profit Right, right, right.
Aimon Ali:But I'm saying, if they don't own it, I thought about all of this and I was like I'm going to be honest because it's so new.
Aimon Ali:I was like you know what, let me go the easier route easier for to be honest, easier for taxes and all of that stuff. Easier for to be honest, easier for taxes and all of that stuff and, um, let's see how it plays out within the first like two years or year and a half, because I'm gonna move fast. I know I have the capability to like keep moving and I've already seen so much change within the last like five months. So I'm like you know what, let me hold out and let me just see, because, um, I also do a lot of like influencer and content creation related to travel, fashion and entrepreneurship, and a lot of times the brands want to work with fashion talks as well. So it kind of, you know, I'm trying to see where it's going to lead me. But who knows, maybe in like a year or two I'll be back on the podcast and I'll be like I never thought I would have done this.
Andy Heise:Sure, yeah, that's great, it's, and I love that. That mindset, that open mindset to just saying this is working, let's just keep moving, like I can't predict the future.
Aimon Ali:What if it? What if I do something and then I regret it. I'd rather have open options and then do the things and let it. Yeah, I never want to. I feel like you never want to overthink something, because until you do something, you don't know what's coming your way, Right.
Andy Heise:Right, absolutely yeah.
Nick Petrella:So, would you say, most of your clients work with you because you offer services they don't want to do, whether it's for time or other resources, or because they don't have those particular skill sets.
Aimon Ali:I think it's a mix. I think it's because they just never thought of doing something like that in that way Usually. For example, a lot of organizations do like galas or fundraising events, and sometimes they'll meet me and I'll be like have you ever thought about doing a fashion oriented event or like a fashion show, and they'll be like, no, how would we even do that? So it's kind of this oh, this is something really creative, this is something new. A lot of them do usually want to attract a newer audience or have more social media impact, and then their boards are like, let's change it up a little bit.
Aimon Ali:So we, when I come in with certain clients, it's more of like a brainstorming idea of like, how far can we take this, but also how can we help you? And then, um, let's make it more fun and creative. So sometimes they realize they have certain skill sets and then we help with only you know certain part of the production. But sometimes they're like, you know what? This is? All you, here's what we want. Help us out. Um, so it's kind of a mix and it's always fun to see how like they bring, like we can bring their own personal kind of organization or touch into whatever we're doing yeah sure.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, I was just wondering for you know how you would market it, because they're really different customer segments, right it?
Aimon Ali:is. It's a lot more. It's really interesting because obviously with social media and digital marketing you get a certain age group and demographic. So it's been interesting because a lot of clients that are more like larger organizations that want to do something usually have attended, like, my runway show or have met me or heard about me from someone and they'll be like, can we do this? Is this crazy? And I'll be like, no, we can totally talk about it.
Andy Heise:Gotcha. So, as we've discussed, inclusivity and diversity are central to your mission at Fashion Talks. Can you share some examples of how you incorporate these values into your events and services?
Aimon Ali:Yeah for sure. So we try our best to be very open to all kinds of people from different backgrounds. One of the main things that we definitely do for like so our main event in the year is the runway. It's a fully produced fashion show that happens once a year in Cleveland, new York. As, like, designers apply, we have model fittings and applications and tryouts, so it's like a whole thing.
Aimon Ali:We do our best to try and spread the word to all the different communities, but also, like a lot of people, we are very open to questions. I'll always be like listen, if you have any questions, any reservations, just ask us. Just go ahead and ask us, and a lot of you know models, for example, will reach out and be like hey, I'm pregnant, can I still walk? I'm not a size zero, or I look like this, or do I need to bring my makeup, or do I need to bring and'm like no, we are here to take care of all of that. You need to just show up. Whether you have experience or not, it's not about can I walk. It's more about your personality and your attitude and how you, you know, show up to the fitting and the designers are picking based on what they want, but also with designers, we try to do outreach far and wild a little bit of we. We try to find like true, truly like different options for people, because I want to show that. But also it's not only in diversity in like color and size and age, but it's also diversity in thought.
Aimon Ali:Right, because we want designers that think different ways and we want to showcase not only like, for example, yes, we are elevated fashion, but we want to showcase local designers, refugee designers, student designers, boutiques right. So we had, for example, we had refugee designers on the runway and then we had Dillard's on the runway. We also had local students who showcase pieces, and then we had someone from a designer from Canada. We had a designer from Chicago. So it's not just hey, like here's your four designers that are kind of the same and that's your option. It's like there is a variety in price range as well. Like you want to support local, you can. You want to go the boutique route, you can, it's up to you. But we want to show you that there's these options. They're elevated. We're showing it with diversity.
Aimon Ali:Also, when it comes to our audience, I feel like every year we get a more diverse audience and I look at the photos always and I'm like, wow, I have no idea who most of these people are, and I love that and it's so diverse and I see the same faces again and again. This is really cool to see that we're able to bring together people of all ages and colors and industry types, because now that I'm going to the nonprofit, oh, I've started asking for more like stats, of like your age and what do you do and all of that, and so it's so interesting to see who we attract and I think most of it is because of how we promote, because we showcase the diversity. Like my intern cohort is always diverse and that's not something I do on purpose. It just ends up being like that. Like I do interviews and I purposely do phone calls, so I don't know what the person looks like.
Aimon Ali:It's based off of what I'm hearing, which has been interesting and I yeah, I mean, 40 phone calls is a lot, but I did it and I picked some and they worked out amazing and they were a diverse group. And you know I try to be like unbiased in that sense. But also sometimes it just comes down to like when I'm talking to other people about our events and being open about it and talking about how I felt when I moved here, because some people don't realize that there are like biases we have that we don't even realize. When I, when I did my very first event in right after the pandemic, it was just a small vision board like event, like we just wanted to. I just wanted to see if people would show up.
Aimon Ali:And I made like a new friend during that time and she was an international, she was not from America, and I asked her if she wanted to come and she was very hesitant and I didn't understand why she would be hesitant when she'd lived in Cleveland longer than me.
Aimon Ali:And I got home that day and she had messaged me and she's like, do you think with my level of English I could attend your event?
Aimon Ali:And I was like I never even thought about that because I always thought about like, obviously, way we're perceived the way we look and my English is fine, so I would never have thought somebody would think can I attend this event because of my level of English, and I was like I'm like, absolutely you can and I want you to. And she came and she messaged me. She's like I've never felt more welcomed in any event than I have at yours. And I felt so happy because I was like I don't think the people that I'm trying to attract care about your level of English. They care about you and, if anything, you speak a whole other language, so you should be so proud of that. So I think it's like there's so many different levels of diversity and inclusion when we get into it and we try our best and I try my best and you know, I think we're, we're getting somewhere with it, but I'm sure there's always room for improvement. Yeah.
Nick Petrella:As you're speaking, I'm wondering. A couple months ago we had Tracy Volbrecht on, and she focuses on adaptive fashion. You had mentioned a lot about inclusivity and diversity. Have you ever had anything with adaptive fashion?
Aimon Ali:You know what we haven't had like an actual runway collection or designer on the runway, but in year one. So after the runway segment, we have a segment called the Ladies of Influence where we pick four amazing women in Cleveland just making impact it doesn't have to be fashion related and then they walk the runway as themselves and we like dress them and do their hair and makeup. And year one we had she was the founder of dance cleveland, I think, and um she was in a wheelchair and so that was our first kind of um. Uh, I guess like touch point, with adaptive fashion and trying to make sure that she felt as comfortable as the other ladies and we were able to dress her, um with her needs and all of that. I would love to showcase something more, but but it is hard. But maybe I will reach out to listen to that podcast and find her.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, I was just just curious. Yeah, so, if I'm remembering correctly, clothing designs can't be copyrighted or trademarked, or at least it's exceptionally difficult. Is that accurate?
Aimon Ali:Yes, unless you have a very specific invention in the clothing, like you have some sort of like button or some aspect that's very specific and very original to you, it is quite hard to do.
Nick Petrella:And that'd be, that'd be patentable. So but but for the copyright and trademark? So I'm just wondering. So in that context and I'm not an ai alarmist how far do you think someone could get in fashion by, say, going to chat, gpt or some other site and creating a line of men's suits that combines characteristics of armani and tom ford?
Aimon Ali:I think you can only get as far as I don't know how to say this but like, okay, I'm. I'm a fan of AI, but I also have my reservations. I think that people who use AI, you need to know what you want. You can Google or chat, gpt, whatever you want, but if you don't know what to do with that information, you're not going to go far. Right, you still need to have the idea to give that to someone who's going to make the tech packs and then do the samples and do the testing.
Aimon Ali:There's a lot of AI can maybe get you started. Right, maybe it's just a I use. I say it's like a suggestion board. You can ask it things and it will give you stronger suggestions than Google. And then you can take that um, armani mixed characteristics. What does that person do next? I guess they could ask ai what to do next. But then how do they find the people right, like it's? It's, I think, at certain, at certain points in the creative industry, I know we're all very like, oh, it's gonna take over and take our creative jobs, but I think at the end of the day, it is still like a search engine in the back end.
Aimon Ali:There are still biases in it and we need to know what we want before it can be successful. It's kind of like when it started doing copywriting and people are like, oh my God, copywriters are going to lose their job. And I'm like a lot of times the reason people go to copywriters is because they don't know what they want. So if they don't know what they want, they're putting it in AI. They're going to get more confused. So that's how I see it.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, you know it's funny. You mentioned that Just the other day I read something I can't remember. Wall Street Journal. They were saying that copywriters are now getting more jobs because AI it's like a word salad and they have to go back. So where are you saving money? But anyway, I don't even know what prompted the question, but I was just wondering, since it seems that everybody's experimenting with AI and it seems like mean, I'm a fan. I won't say I hate it, I do like it, I do think it's a great, just starting point.
Aimon Ali:Like, let's say, you just, you just need to run some ideas by someone. I think it's a great thing to put it in and just be like hey, can I do this? And it's just it could make your work faster. But I don't think it's something that we can like really depend on for the solution.
Andy Heise:I could see it being helpful for mock-ups and things like that too. So you've got your designs that you have, but then you want to see it in a certain setting or on a certain model or a certain whatever. Ai could be a great tool for seeing your work in different ways.
Aimon Ali:It's a great suggestion.
Andy Heise:Right.
Nick Petrella:I wasn't suggesting it. I just want to be clear. I was just wondering.
Aimon Ali:I mean I'll suggest it, I don't mind, but I think it's a great, just like sometimes people get too into their thoughts and they have all of these ideas and sometimes you just need to put it somewhere. I think for that like, hey, can I? What are 10 ways? I can do this yeah that is great, and then you have to do. You still have to do most of the legwork yourself, though.
Andy Heise:I think Nick was actually soliciting some feedback on his side project.
Nick Petrella:You can see I'm a fashionista, absolutely the gray brings out your eyes.
Aimon Ali:So along those same lines of the AI stuff as it is a fairly new thing that we're all experimenting with and experiencing. How has the fashion industry changed since you've started working in it in Toronto? Okay, so the change in Toronto and the change in Cleveland is different because they're two very different spots. So when I started working in Toronto, our industry was big but was about to get a lot bigger and a lot more diverse. So when I first started, I was one of the only like hijabi, like Muslim women that I would see. Now, when I first started, I was one of the only hijabi Muslim women that I would see. Now, when I look in the industry, there's a lot more people that look like me. There's just a lot more diversity. Overall it's grown.
Aimon Ali:There is so much happening now but it's also the industries are very much supported by the city a lot. There's a lot more infrastructure and funding and just organizations that have that base educational level, like there's, you know, academies to teach certain things now outside of like the university and colleges, whereas in Cleveland I think we're still at that base educational level Like when I moved here. There really, I'm going to be honest, there was. I did not see any other fashion production at all in the greater Cleveland area. But in the last few years I've seen a few pop up which is very interesting to see them try to do things in Cleveland, which is always nice, always nice, um.
Aimon Ali:But I think in Cleveland we are still growing. We're still at that like more educational need, more support, um, need more organization level, um, whereas Toronto is definitely like full-blown, kind of like New York, um. But I definitely see that Cleveland has the potential, especially with the growth I've seen in the last like even for three to four years, like every year. There's people I find and I'm like where did you come from? Like where were you? Like this is amazing, you're in Cleveland, what so?
Nick Petrella:To your point. I mean Toronto as you were talking. I just searched Toronto. The city proper has about three million people. The city of Cleveland. Not counting the surrounding areas, it's between three and four hundred thousand.
Aimon Ali:So it's quite a bit bigger in Toronto. Yeah, the surrounding areas it's between three and four hundred thousand, so it's quite a bit bigger in toronto. Yeah, it's, it's. We are a major city, um, we're probably the biggest in canada, I mean, but yeah, it's just there's just so much more happening. It's like kind of like you can't compare new york to cleveland, right, they're at a different level and I mean the size makes a huge difference. Um, but definitely I would say cleveland has a lot of potential. It's like small city with, or medium city with big city energy. So definitely think we could eventually get there with the right like support and programming and things that I am trying to do. So yeah.
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