Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#289: Scott Cramton (Founder of American Immersion Theatre) (pt. 2 of 2)
Today we released part one of our interview with theatre company founder Scott Cramton. His journey is nothing short of inspiring. Born with a cleft palate, he underwent seven surgeries by fourth grade and overcame speech challenges through dedicated therapy. Embracing his passion for the arts, he pursued his love for theater and film at Grand Valley State University, where his hidden disability became the driving force behind his mission.
Over the years he created a variety of theater companies, including American Immersion Theater (AIT), a multi-million dollar enterprise and the largest immersive theater company in America.
You won't want to miss his entertaining story of bootstrapping and persistence in the theatre space! https://americanimmersiontheater.com/
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making art work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. I'm Andy Heise
Nick Petrella:And I'm Nick Petrella. Scott Cramton is on the podcast today. His journey is nothing short of inspiring. Born with a cleft palate, he underwent seven surgeries by fourth grade and overcame speech challenges through dedicated therapy. Embracing his passion for the arts, he pursued his love for theater and film at Grand Valley State University, where his hidden disability became the driving force behind his mission. Over the years, he created a variety of theater companies, including American Immersion Theater, a multi-million dollar enterprise and the largest immersive theater company in America. We'll have Scott's websites in the show notes so you can learn more about him and his companies.
Scott Cramton:Thanks for being on the podcast. Scott hey, thanks for having me.
Andy Heise:Appreciate it. This isn't a question on the sheet here, but I'm curious about you. I want to know about your business model, Like now that I kind of know more about what you're doing. I'm just curious, like how do these pop up in different cities?
Scott Cramton:So is it okay if I ask that question? Yeah, of course, absolutely. So you know one of the big things to note. You know if you're thinking about going to art or you are an artist. I mean, I think we don't. We underestimate the fact that leads are king. That's what it is really. Leads are absolutely king, and so we're still a tech company. In many ways, we're a search engine optimization company.
Scott Cramton:One of our largest departments, if not our most expensive, is our tech department. We have a full coder, we have two SEO know in-house graphic designer. We have all these different people because we need that high placement in Google for whatever business we're trying to do, whether it's super silly, fun, like famous for a day, or it's not too hard, because there's probably one other company in the planet doing anything remotely like this, or the murder mystery company, or the murder mystery company. So what ends up happening is, let's say, you know it's the princess party company, right? They're going to fill out a lead sheet and then we have an entire sales center with people that are ready to zoom, call, whatever you know, send carrier, pigeons, interpretive, dance, whatever they need, and we basically handle any of their calls. And then we have, um, a production department that runs all of the directors throughout the country. So we have individual people, uh, that are, you know, our people in each city, and then those people have our actors that we and we have storage units or homes, depending on the place, and they basically we have all the stuff, we have everything.
Scott Cramton:Um, these are all actors that have auditioned for us. They're part of, essentially, a troop. We have a proprietary uh software called the hub that we made from scratch, um, that allows them to basically, so allows them to do a true subcontractor gig work, which is something pops up. They say they're interested in it or, if they don't, they just don't get contacted. Then the director casts them from there, holds a rehearsal via Zoom or in person, and they've already gone through full training. So, you know, they know how to do it and, since we're so popular, a lot of times they've done these shows.
Scott Cramton:Is there a hundredth time, 300th time? Is Ariel Bell the detective? Whatever we're doing, and yeah, that's kind of how that's kind of how it works. It is a full supply of chain. We have a lot of, you know, secret things in place. Like you have to take a picture of the show. We have a costume person at headquarters that looks at it to make sure things quality control. We do surveys every show, that kind of stuff, and our reviews are really good. We average like a 4.8 in surveys, which I think is stellar. Last year we did 8,000 individual performances Wow. And so you hire 8,000 individual performances, wow.
Andy Heise:And so you hire locals.
Nick Petrella:I would imagine so if you were coming to Cleveland, if I wanted to audition. Yes, yeah, yeah.
Scott Cramton:Yes, yeah, you'd be part of our Cleveland troupe. We wouldn't fly you out to Salt Lake City for some reason, and that's part of the key right. You know you want this to be accessible for people. I grew up in Detroit, very poor and not very, very poor, but you know, poor and I want this kind of forum to be accessible for people, and the only way to do that is to limit travel and to, you know, have a very big footprint. So we have, I believe it's 21 different cities that we have troops in and you know we, on and off, have about 2,000 actors at any given time that work with us and we do two different audition cycles per year. That's great.
Andy Heise:And you said those directors in those cities are your employees.
Scott Cramton:Those sometimes are, sometimes aren't. It truly depends on the troop and such and the location and the laws of each city, each state and stuff like that. Gotcha, you know, we do everything we can to keep you know, to make this make sense for everybody and to work within the parameters of all the laws that are impossible to actually work with and they're impossible to figure out.
Andy Heise:Yeah, but Well, it seems like that would be such a critical role for, for, for the, for the broader company, is those those individual directors?
Scott Cramton:Yeah, and we fly them out. We have them meet here, that we have them take go to headquarters. We have them. You know, I generally spend a full week with them and we've really really, you know, we try to do it like two or three at a time. Um, you know, and we, you know we work with them. Then we of course have an assistant director who's very much like the vice president. If they ever step down, the assistant director is ready to go, uh, could take over. And then we have a tlc, an acronym I'm pretty proud of, and uh, you know it stands for the logistics coordinator, but logistics is like the least sexy, fun word in the English language. So, creating a TLC, I was very happy with that.
Nick Petrella:Yeah.
Andy Heise:So a lot of moving parts in any given time. Like you said, you did 8,000 shows last year 8,000 individual performances last year.
Scott Cramton:yeah, I have been involved in more fake murder than anybody alive.
Andy Heise:So immersive theater is all about creating unique and memorable experiences. Can you walk us through the process of developing that type of a performance?
Scott Cramton:from idea to execution.
Scott Cramton:Yeah, absolutely so. You know, obviously, we run multiple different companies. So we run Camp Dragon Online, which is a Dungeons Dragons company that involves videos and what's more immersive than Dungeons Dragons? Right? We run the Princess Party Company, which is exactly what you think. We run a superhero variant of that as well. We have atmospheric entertainment, which is essentially like, if you just have an idea and you're not sure what to do with it, you want actors for it. It's very much like that.
Scott Cramton:We run Famous for a Day, which is the thing people really love talking about, which is we make you famous for a day. Day, which is the thing people really love talking about, which is we make you famous for a day. So, like you know, you just come out of a bar and suddenly you're surrounded by paparazzi and a fake bodyguard, and you know you do that long enough on the streets of Cleveland. Uh, people are going to run up to you and start thinking you're famous. Uh, we have, uh, twice shut down a radio drive in front of man's Chinese theater. Um, because we did one for BuzzFeed where they wanted to make their intern famous. We made him so famous, the police showed up and they had to shut it down and again, he's just an intern, you know. But so many people were triple parking their cars on the street just getting out to try to meet this person who was only famous because we had five people thinking faking it. So, yeah, it's famous for a day.
Scott Cramton:Of course, the murder mystery company is kind of the bread and butter, the original operation of the company, but I think the best way to answer this question is with Princess Party, princess party company. So you know, one of the things I always think about is like, what would I want? You know what's fun? What have I never experienced? You know, I I was always frustrated by the kardashians. Uh, you know, I'm like, but you can't do that. So I created fans for a day, but for princess party company, I had to kind of, you know, uh, have my daughter get some princess parties and she was a little too old for it, but we did it anyway, just to kind of understand what it is. I attended a few that other people had booked and what I realized with princess parties right is it was all about hey, here's the princess, watch the princess.
Scott Cramton:Success, the princess shows up and let's just pretend if you're at home, pretend there's a celebrity that you really, really can't imagine. Meeting Like somebody is huge, right. I want to just say George Clooney for right now, right, and imagine if you're just chilling, it's your birthday, right? You have some friends over and knock on the door and George Clooney comes in your house and you're just like, first off, you're gobstopped, right. Well, what? George Clooney's in my house. How is this happening? How is this possible? And then he's, the first thing he does is like hey, sit down in your living room and I'm going to sing to you. You're like you've gone from like wow, george Clooney's here, to like George Clooney is oddly singing to me in my house. When does that experience ever happen, right? Like when have you been sung to in your living room? That's not. That's so weird, right. And then it's like take pictures with George Clooney and by the end of it you're just like exhausted and weirded out.
Scott Cramton:And this is very true for kids with princess parties, in my opinion, you know like they go in, they're like I'm Elsa. And then for the kids they're like this is Elsa. Yeah, like not in non-cartoon form, elsa is at my house. How is Elsa at my house? That is mind breaking to them a lot of times. That's why sometimes kids just cry. They just don't know what to do with it. They're just like they just immediately burst into tears and then. And then she's like all right, everybody shut up, get in the living room and I'm going to sing to you loudly and you're like what, what is happening here?
Scott Cramton:And then you're suddenly taking pictures. Yeah, no, it's tears, yeah, yeah, no, it's tears of everything. Like you're so overwhelmed. So you know, I realized that's not the immersive way to do things. You know what that is is. That's like what people assume everybody wants. They're like, what does Elsa do? She sings and then she's going to take pictures, talk about Arendelle and then get the hell out of there. Right, Well, that's not what kids actually want. That's weird, Like it's weird. It just is. It's weird.
Scott Cramton:And it would freak me out if George Clooney did that. And I would love to meet George Clooney, but if he sings in the first five minutes, I'm going to cry and I'm going to pretend it's happy. But I'm freaked out, Like why is this happening? There's really no explanation for the kids. It's just suddenly like, oh, Elsa can appear on our house now. So what we do is we immediately go in and we, and our Elsa is immediately saying hey, I'm here for Tiffany's birthday. Where's Tiffany? I want to, I want, I have big news for her. And the first thing we do is we empower Tiffany and we, and Elsa comes. She says I have a big surprise for you. We're officially going to coronate you. You are officially a princess yourself. And what if you know? For for my daughter, Amanda? The thing I'd want more than anything is for Elsa to tell my daughter that she's the princess. So that's the first thing we do. We get to know them individually. We never really sing at their house, because I always find that to be, you know, weird. They instead engage with the kids. Sometimes, you know, the kids go off shooting. They're like alice, I just want to show you my room. Yeah, because honestly, that's what people want.
Scott Cramton:When you meet a celebrity, you're so often wanting to tell them something about yourself, to engage. You want to tell them like George, you have no idea, I watched Up in the Air and that was my life. Man, Like you were my life and I had that You're talking about you, which doesn't technically make sense. Ideally, you'd want to be like hey, George Clooney, how do you become famous and do awesome things? But instead you tell them about you and your experiences. That's the connecting factor. So whenever you're thinking of an immersive event, you have to think about what people actually need from it, what people actually want, what they're actually going to get, as opposed to just what you can do. People look through the lens of theater with it or entertainment too much, and that's not really what it is. So you know you have to figure out what would be cool for you to actually do. Yeah.
Scott Cramton:And that's how it goes from conception to that.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, that's great. I was going to say, if you really wanted to make an impact, you could merge the two murder mystery and princess and have Elsa show up with an axe. I would pay for that.
Scott Cramton:We might be able to get away with that with parody laws, Not a real axe a fake axe. It's interesting Like Disney is so cool with people doing princess parties because they don't want to do it. They're so uncool with people doing anything. But but yes, I don't know why I took your joke very seriously. I have no idea why I answered that way, like for some reason you're like he's clearly joking but instead tell them the real answer.
Scott Cramton:I've actually gotten that like a dozen times and we've thought about it because you know, I did it with Harry Potter and I'll never do it again because they got right on top of us immediately and we thought we could get away with it in parody law and my lawyer was like you absolutely can, you'll win this case, but. But the case will cost you $10 million. But you'll totally win, but $10 million.
Nick Petrella:Isn't that the axiom?
Scott Cramton:Yeah, and I'm like it's the cost of fighting. He's like, well, yeah, Well, like, how much can you? He's like, how much will the show make? And I'm like, well, if it goes really well, maybe maybe your conversation that we just had right now I might be able to pay that back. So you know, nowadays everything's original. But, yes, I would love to do that. Hire me to do that someday for a one shot. I would love to do a princess. We wrote half of it and that's true. No, this is fun. There's an artist who I got tagged on a billion times and then I bought mocks of all his stuff. Uh, he created film noir detective princesses in paintings. That was his thing. So like it's like pocahontas smoking in a detective coat near a door that says Private Eye Pocahontas and stuff like that.
Nick Petrella:It's already out there.
Scott Cramton:It's already out there and it did well. He did gangbusters with that, so yeah.
Andy Heise:I always wondered how the licensing or whatever works with that, because sometimes you see, whatever they won't license they won't. So you mentioned like Elsa, but oftentimes it's billed as like the Snow Queen or something like that.
Scott Cramton:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I figure for me saying that is fine, but yeah, technically we don't sell Elsa herself.
Andy Heise:Right.
Scott Cramton:It's interesting Disney themselves. You know I'm not trying to get into a Disney licensing podcast because ultimately the rule of all licensing is this If they have more money than you, they can say no and what you're doing can be legal in America but that is irrelevant to them saying no. So ultimately it's a matter of their risk. What they want they're aware. Obviously, if you make companies look good, they often don't mind if you do stuff for them. You know if you're out there crushing your Darth Vader, look and people are taking pictures with it and such, you know that's just perpetuating your licensing and brand. They don't really need a taste off of that as much. So it's about them looking good and we make them look great.
Nick Petrella:That makes sense. Good, so you had mentioned that when you started you had a partner. Did you have anybody else? So I never had any partnerships.
Scott Cramton:I don't believe in partnerships for the most part. I think you can get married and that's like the hardest thing you can do. You know anybody married on the pot, you know it's the most amount of work and the average marriage ends in divorce. Sorry, not the average marriage. The average marriage that ends in divorce is often really because of money, is often really because of money. So here's a partnership in business where you have a partner that's just about money but you guys aren't in love so there's no like. You know, like, screw it, let's just kiss and we'll figure it out tomorrow. So I've always been against that. So you know I've had people help me. I've had tons of great people help me along the way. People like Justin Issa. You know I've had people help me. I've had tons of great people help me along the way. People like Justin Issa, michael Hare and a thousand other people that I begged borrowed and pleaded favors from that lent me their talent along the way that I've done my best to help, as I've, you know I've done my best to send the elevator back down for them. But like, yeah, I mean a million people, but no, you know I I researched a lot of statistics in a different life, I was a math guy. Um, I have actually a bunch of world championships in these games that relate to math and I love statistics. And statistically, um, businesses fail for one of two reasons partnerships or divorce. Those are the top two basic reasons. It's very rarely that the business is just like what people assume, which is just like. Well, I tried to make a cheese stand that just involved cheeses from, uh, paraguay, but nobody knows what Paraguay is and I'm an idiot. So the end of my business. And that's not how it works. It's almost always. They have a successful business, the partnership ends or the marriage ends and they own half the business, and now you have to figure out how to buy the other half, but they're not legally obligated to give you any time to do that and they own half the money in the bank. So how are you going to pull that off? So I've always avoided those kinds of major pratfalls and I've been always looking at the statistics of what happens with businesses and why they fail. But I've I.
Scott Cramton:You know, nobody is doing this alone, and if anybody out there is thinking that, like you know, I got to do this and pull myself up by my own bootstraps. I'm always fascinated when I'm talking to students or like I'm at these kinds of conferences and people are talking. They're like well, I just really want to do it on my own. I'm like that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Like that's just so incredibly dumb. It's just to be like look, I want to go to the moon, but I just got to do it on my own. I want to rock climb, but I just got to do it without a partner. No, that's so stupid. Get as much help as you can. If anybody wants to help you, one, one, one hundredth of a percent, be like thank you so much and just take their help. Take everybody's help. I, you know everybody's help. I mean the whole company of Art Van helped me.
Nick Petrella:Yeah you know everybody's help, I mean the whole company of art van helped me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So go it alone, but as the business structure, get all the help you can.
Andy Heise:Absolutely yeah, scott, can you tell us a little bit about the immersive theater scene? Is it new, is it growing, et cetera? You mentioned that sort of a little bit at the top, but what other trends are you?
Scott Cramton:seeing more immersive shows than non-immersive shows, which is crazy. In China now, the number one form of entertainment is movies. The number two form of entertainment is sports playing or going out, and the number three reason that a person will leave their house for entertainment is jubensha, which translates to murder scripts, which is like six people in a room doing immersive entertainment. And then, of course, japan built like a I don't even know how much it is because it's not public, but I went there and it looked like it was like five hundred million dollar theme park. It was like one of the biggest, most and just a straight immersive theme park. So everyone else is jumping into it, embracing this, and America is actually a little bit behind. I'm not sure if it was my fault that we're behind. We have Meow Wolf, we have Sleep no More for another month or something like that, and there's definitely some people doing some awesome stuff, but you know there's not the same thing like in London or whatever Interesting.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, scott, beyond your theater companies, it looks like you have a few other revenue streams, such as video production, courses and consulting. When did you recognize the opportunity for each of these offerings?
Scott Cramton:You know for me, I have those on my website. I you know I love video stuff and I learned a while ago that it would be cheaper for me to literally have a full-time videographer and buy the equipment than it would be to do one commercial once a year and then I could have amazing content all the time. So that's one way we were able to just kind of usurp competitors because our video quality is amazing, so we always do offer that and rent that out to people if they're interested. I love consulting on stuff. Quality is amazing, so we always do offer that and rent that out to people if they're interested. I love consulting on stuff.
Scott Cramton:I mainly do it for, like you know, tv and movies, those kind of immersive things there. But you know, anything that I can do to help with immersive stuff I want to do and you know it is nice occasionally to not be doing it on my own dime. You know, occasionally to be like you know, I always have to look at things like a business. But like sometimes you know, movie things are like okay, the budget's $50,000. I'm like, for how many people? And they're like two, you know like, all right, fantastic.
Andy Heise:Yeah, you were talking earlier and I was just thinking, like you know, like the classical music world and things like, there's all these old traditional I shouldn't say old traditional, that's redundant but all these traditional art forms that could maybe use a little oh, absolutely, immersion elements, right?
Scott Cramton:Candle. Yeah, one of the big things right now is classics by candlelight and they just do it in like yeah, I was in Paris, actually, and they were just doing it in old churches. So you'd go in this really old church, like thousands of years old, not really, but like old, and you'd go in and they'd have all these candles and just like a guy with a violin, it's beautiful. So some places are figuring out and turning it on its ear a little bit and the hope is that Broadway does that soon and they will a little bit, because I'm going to be in Times Square soon.
Andy Heise:Awesome.
Nick Petrella:That's great.
Andy Heise:And so I have to ask you about your recent appearance on Shark Tank. It's such a cultural icon, at least in the US and maybe globally, I'm not aware at least in the US and maybe globally, I'm not aware but for me, I teach entrepreneurship and for a lot of people, when you say the word entrepreneurship, like, their first thought is Shark Tank. So it's Shark Tank. Yeah, exactly yeah. So what was your experience like on Shark Tank?
Scott Cramton:You know, first off, I've always watched Shark Tank. I love Shark Tank. Abc Shark Tank is the best. I love anything that actually teaches you something in an entertaining way and I love that it's something that's not just telling you to fall in line and work for somebody else, so that's refreshing too. You know our experience. We have a very different path to Shark Tank.
Scott Cramton:I suspect that they contacted us in part because of who the Gishark was going to be and they wanted something interesting that would connect. They contacted us for the Halloween episode initially, and here's where I got kind of lucky. We did not make the Halloween episode and they were going to drop us. But the very first phone call, like where it was not appropriate to tell them my pitch. I had had a pitch for shark tank that I'd written like 10 years earlier when I saw something that was immersive that Mark Cuban bought Right, and I've always had that in my head and I'm like, hey, wait, before we get off the phone, can I tell you my pitch? And apparently that pitch kind of went up the chain. And then we eventually got hooked up with an individual producer and that producer, my understanding is, literally convinced them to put us on the other episode with the same guest Shark.
Scott Cramton:So I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to say this stuff. I have no idea, but I think it's fine. Basically, that's what God's in. So me overreaching and just having more ideas and not really following things how they're supposed to do is exactly how I actually got on. So you know, like people are always like I just got to follow the rules. Oh man, I got to follow the rule. I try to avoid that as much as possible. I really do.
Nick Petrella:Well that's an excellent point. You're having a conversation. They open the door. The conversation's going. They shut the door. You put your foot in it and look where it got you.
Scott Cramton:Yeah, absolutely.
Nick Petrella:So I just have to ask, cause it seems like things are going really well, and I hope they go well for 100 years. But I'm wondering what's your exit strategy? Will you keep doing this for as long as you can, or do you think you'll try to sell to a larger entertainment company?
Scott Cramton:I actually have a great Shark Tank story that didn't make air about this. So Jason Blum in our thing and again didn't make air. But he said, scott, you're doing so well, why don't you? I'm shocked you haven't sold or exited. And I told him. I said, sir, I wouldn't sell this for a billion dollars. And Mark Cuban said BS didn't actually say the word BS, though and then I told I'm like, okay, okay, if I did sell that, if somebody offered me a billion dollars, I'd sell it so that I could do other things exactly like this with a billion dollars. And that's the honest truth. I'm doing what I love. I would never want to sell this. I don't have really any interest in doing that and ultimately, you know, I feel like people would cut it too. You know what we do doesn't really make sense, but it works, and you'd have to have a lot of faith to be able to do that, and everybody would else play it safer, and you know safer is less interactive, Just a fact play it safer, and you know safer is less interactive.
Andy Heise:Just a fact. Well, scott, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions, and the first question is what advice would you give to others who wanted to become an art entrepreneur?
Scott Cramton:You know, my advice is the only. I have tons of quotes on our walls but I only have one quote that's mine and it's if you're not in over your head, you're not trying hard enough, and that is a thing everybody you know is so big into right now, feeling like everything's got to be calm and safe and fine. And you know, if you're really in your like safe zone and you're feeling okay about everything, you're probably literally not trying as hard as you could. You know, love, love business. These are boxing and you don't go into a boxing ring expecting not to get punched in the face. You got to just go for it as hard as you can.
Nick Petrella:What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?
Scott Cramton:You know raising ticket prices over and over and over again. And then you know making sure that there is a great outlet that allows people to resell tickets for even more money. That's the key. You don't want to do something terrible like Japan, where they made reselling tickets illegal because that would make it so anybody could go. You don't want to do something like getting rid of Ticketmaster like they do in every country but America and limiting fees, because then everybody would be accessible. Lowering ticket prices, that's what makes it accessible. And if you can't do that, sometimes do some free shows or do 5% or 10% for that.
Scott Cramton:I mean, art is supposed to be for the masses. But I'm right, here in New York we're opening in Times Square. We're opening at a reasonable price. You know it's $129, and there's some couponing potentially available and it's a full three-course meal and a show. But you know, right across the street is $400 a seat for a kid's show. So that means anybody have $1,600 laying around right now so their kids can see Harry Potter. You know, I get it. It's tough, everything's it's tough. I mean like their rent is expensive, their advertising is expensive, everybody's getting a taste.
Andy Heise:Yeah, lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice anyone's given you?
Scott Cramton:Lastly, what's the best artistic winter coat? And he's wearing like a button up that you wear to work, like maybe a flannel version of it. And I'm like, dad, aren't you uncomfortable? And he's like, yeah, I guess so. And I'm like, so, isn't that a problem? And he's like why is being uncomfortable that a problem? And he's like, why, why is being uncomfortable such a problem? Like he, I'm like he, you know well, because you're cold. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I'm just kind of cold, it's okay, it doesn't really matter. Uh, and he would do that to like I'm like dad, you're getting wet. He's like, yeah, I've been wet before, it's fine. Yeah, I'm a little hot, I don't, it doesn't matter.
Scott Cramton:And I'm like that is such an interesting choice because we're always so much into like no, the room has to be exactly this degrees, everything has to be exactly right all the time for us so that we can feel comfortable. And I I wrote my dad had no interest in that. It was just like you know, whatever, it doesn't matter. And yeah, you sometimes just get wet because it's raining and then you're wet and you know what, you'll be okay. Sometimes you're hot and you'll be okay. Sometimes the room's a little chilly and you didn't bring a jacket. Why does that matter? You're never going to remember that, so I don't know exactly what advice that is for people, but that's something I took with me my whole life that, like we put so much emphasis on just being comfortable and man, it doesn't matter at all.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, that's great. Well, scott, thanks so much for being with us. It's just. It's been impressive to hear your tenacity and creative approach to really creating the success that AIT has enjoyed over 25 years.
Scott Cramton:Well, thank you, and let me quickly make sure to plug the fact that we're going to be in Times Square for a non-limited engagement at Carmine, so please come check that out If you're ever in Times Square. Six shows a week we're opening up and for all the listeners who have never really seen either of our two people, they do this show completely shirtless and they're both completely jacked with a ton of tattoos. You wouldn't expect that, but they're both benching at least 350. And they both have at least one flaming skull tattoo on their chest that I can see right now, just so everybody knows.
Andy Heise:That's awesome. Thanks, scott. You're welcome, scott.
Scott Cramton:You're welcome.
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