Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#293: Brian & Ross Raitman (Raitman Art Galleries) (pt. 2 of 2)
This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with brothers Brian and Ross Raitman. Together they own Raitman Art Galleries in Breckenridge and Vail, Colorado, and also have a robust online gallery on their website.
They started with an 825 sq. foot gallery in 2007, and over the years have expanded to over 8,000 sq. feet of gallery space in their 3 locations. Many of their 50+ artists have national and international reputations, and have works featured in museums and Fortune 100 companies.
You won't want to miss this entertaining behind-the-scenes look at what it took to build a successful multi-showroom art gallery from the ground up!
https://www.raitmanart.com/
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making art work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heiss and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heiss.
Nick Petrella:And I'm Nick Petrella. We have Brian and Ross Reitman on the podcast today. They're brothers who own Reitman Art Galleries in Breckenridge and Vail, Colorado. They also have a robust online gallery on their website. They started with an 825-square-foot gallery in 2007, and over the years, have expanded to over 8,000 square feet of gallery space in their three locations. Many of their artists have national and international reputations and have works featured in museums and Fortune 100 companies. We'll have their website in the show notes so you can learn more about their showrooms, artists and art. Brian and Ross, thanks for coming on the podcast.
Brian Raitman:Thanks for having us, Nick. We really appreciate it. We're flattered to be here.
Nick Petrella:Those six or seven artists who are, say, your top six or seven, do you have exclusive arrangements with them or no? A few of them.
Ross Raitman:We do in terms of our area. Geography, yeah, but every artist that we work with is a professional artist and you know we're big believers that people need to be able to make a decent living and and you know you got to have your hand in a few different buckets. Otherwise, you know, if, for whatever reason, we go cold with an artist, sales for a little bit and you know they're not getting any income coming in. So you know we're big believers they got to be in at least a few artists or a few galleries to really make a living. So we fully support that. But for our area, we want our galleries to be unique and we don't want to be selling the same art that somebody has up the street.
Brian Raitman:So sure, right that's a benefit for our clients too, right, because we're opening our doors seven days a week with the intent of building that artist's career. It's great when there's multiple and we're sure we have multiple doors. It's great when there's even more doors that are opening every day to build that artist's career, because that really builds the value for the artwork. So, yeah, it can be a bit of a detriment to us perhaps to not have that exclusive arrangement, but we do choose. I mean, our clients come first. They pay for us to live, frankly, and for our salespeople to live and for our artists to live. So the decisions we make are to build value in the art, and having it be elsewhere is great for them as a collector.
Nick Petrella:This segues nicely into the next question. It looks like you represent over 50 artists. How much engagement do you have with them, and is it easy to keep everyone happy?
Brian Raitman:I talk to at least one of them pretty much every single day. They're like friends and family to us. Several of them pretty much every single day. They're like friends and family to us. Several of them are my closest friends. We'll represent a bunch of them beyond their time on this planet. We brought them into the galleries because they're professionals. They are some of the absolute best in this world at what they do. We mostly let them do their thing. When I talk to them, it's just about life. We'll plan our collective schedules. If we have shows coming up, we'll talk about what are you working on? When do you think you'll have it done? We let them paint the subjects that they want to paint because we trust who and what they are as artists. We'll talk business in general just to get a feel for what else is going on in the art world and share knowledge with each other.
Ross Raitman:Brian touched on this a bit but it's good to reiterate. You know it's not that hard to keep them all happy because this business is so symbiotic. You know we only succeed when they succeed and vice versa. You know we've just talked. We have our top sellers and we know that. You know, sometimes business is top heavy. So a lot of the times we're talking to the artists who are selling the most just in terms of because we need to stay up on what's going on getting replacement inventory and working on custom pieces and whatnot. But even with our artists that we're not necessarily selling a ton for every month, we try to make sure that one of us or one of our team members is checking in with all of our artists so that way we're always maintaining those relationships.
Brian Raitman:It's so important as a gallery right, there's layers of it. When we opened, it was Ross and I on the sales floor all day, every day. Now it's not. A third of our time is spent in a client's house. A third of our time is spent working from home. A third of it is spent in one of three galleries. The gallery is the face of the artist, but then the salesperson is literally the face of the artist. The artist is on the wall. The salesperson is the human interaction that people are enjoying while they're looking at the art. It's super important that those relationships are strong and that we can share their story and their history, their resume, all the things that build people's passion for the art, and then, in building those relationships on a personal level to it, it gives us that passion that again is so important for selling art.
Andy Heise:So, similarly as you engage with the artists you represent, how do you engage with local communities in Breckenridge and Vail? Are there specific events or initiatives that you organize or participate in that help you get your name into the community or build that recognition of the gallery as a part of the community?
Brian Raitman:We'll host receptions and demonstrations quite a bit in the gallery. So the artists are coming into town to hang out and people from the community can come in and meet them. Towns like ours always are advertising the fact that they have great galleries and great shopping. So we're a part of that small town fabric and culture. Of course. In that regard, one of the things that Ross and I both really love about the galleries is we have clients going back and forth between Vail and Breckenridge all the time just to check out our three spaces. So we've really uniquely connected these two communities. Two days ago someone saw art in Vail, drove to Breckenridge, bought two pieces. So that back and forth is cool and it builds up the economies in both towns Because if you're making that 40-minute drive just to come into the gallery, that's completely flattering. They'll also usually stop and have lunch in the town or go shop for whatever else they want to look at. That's pretty cool.
Brian Raitman:When we were a new business, we did a lot more with the local community, specifically Breck, since that's where our first gallery is. I started an art walk in town with a couple of other young gallery owners. We had monthly meetings with the other galleries. It was cool, but as we grew and sadly so many galleries closed around us, we didn't have as much time and energy to put into that. Um, interesting fact, true, locals, like people that live here year round, are a tiny fraction of our business, I guess, like one, like one percent of our sales, sure, um, so yeah, and then beyond that too, the community thing. As much as we love where we live, I love solitude, I'm kind of a recluse, so I'll uh, you'll find me out skiing by myself or hiking or mountain biking, yeah, yeah, the mountains are a beautiful place to, to get out into nature. You just enjoy that. So great escape.
Nick Petrella:So, besides the foot traffic in Breckenridge and there's a lot of it what are your most successful marketing vehicles?
Ross Raitman:Yeah, our location is very important and that definitely drives a lot of it. But in terms of our marketing dollars, most of them go towards print magazines, both locally and nationally. Our newsletters is definitely our biggest driver in terms of sales coming directly from marketing. We have over 7,000 active people on our mailing list.
Nick Petrella:Wow.
Brian Raitman:And those are all around the world.
Nick Petrella:It must be.
Brian Raitman:Yeah, yeah, literally around the world. Amazing. I'll sit here in my dining room and write an email to 7,500 people and it gets up, and pretty much every continent blows my mind.
Brian Raitman:That's awesome. Yeah, we try and get those out weekly when we're really busy and we have shows going on all the time and we'll let it sit a bit in the off season. I don't want to over-inundate people with it. Yeah, sure, we work pretty closely too with the folks that put together the local magazines it a bit in the off season. I don't want to over and done over inundate people with it. So sure, um, we work pretty closely too with the folks that put together the local magazines, and veil in particular. So those publications are great for us. They put together a beautiful magazine called veil.
Brian Raitman:Valley magazine always has a feature article on one of our artists and a publication in season so both in summer and winter called called Art Weekly. It's constantly featuring us and the artists we work with. And Breck back to the local community thing too, we like to support the National Repertory Orchestra. My wife and I just went to a concert with them the other night. It was wonderful. So we'll advertise in their program. It's a full-color, full-size magazine. It's beautiful. Then the Restaurant Association Breck has a great dining scene. It's kind of mind-boggling. Yeah, it's gotten over the years. Um, so we we advertise in the restaurant associations magazine, fittingly called the dining guide. Um, and then nationally um, we love western art and architecture. We've sold straight out of that big pieces with some regularity. Um, they ask, prints are favorite. Art should be seen right and so prints a great vehicle to show art full color. Big magazines we put big images of big paintings in them and it tends to work that's awesome.
Ross Raitman:You said, nick, that you were looking up galleries in Breck. So we make sure that our SEO is really strong. Make sure that when people are searching for Vail Art Galleries, breck Ridge Art Galleries, colorado Art Galleries galleries that we're popping up pretty high to make sure that people are getting to our website and being like oh okay, cool, they've got three locations I can go visit and get a good idea for what the collection looks like. But art always looks better in person, so thankfully that helps drive people to actually come in and see it in person.
Andy Heise:Yeah.
Brian Raitman:Wonderful thing about this industry I know, nick, you're into music pretty huge. And wonderful thing about this industry I know, nick, you're into music pretty huge. That was my early life too. The music industry changed before my eyes when I was in early years in college, napster. What Exactly? It became free and way too accessible. Art is very tangible. The work we show is one of a kind you can't just print it right. Sure, you go to our website and print an image if you want. Good luck with that. It's not going to look right, but I mean you can come into a real gallery, have a great experience and see real things that people made with their hands. I mean so fortunately, art galleries will always have a place in this world.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, I love that about this industry yeah, I'm glad you guys support the nro. I mean that's, that's the reason we're out there. Our son was there this summer and the weekend we were out there he was playing a concerto, so it was kind of nice so I plotted out the art gallery, I plotted out the uh, the restaurants and things like that, because we didn't have too much time I think we have tickets to eight concerts this summer oh, did you, yeah, you.
Brian Raitman:Yeah, it's pretty great. That's awesome. We were just there on Tuesday, tuesday, wednesday, wednesday. We were there on Saturday. It was fun. We'll probably be back this next weekend, I have a feeling, whenever the concert tickets we have are it's wrapping up, isn't it?
Ross Raitman:Yeah, at the time of this recording yeah. One of the cool things about our community is that we have so much stuff like that. So we've got the NRO in Brecknerage and Vail has Bravo. They're bringing in the Philly Orchestra, the New York Orchestra, and they've started doing these incredible concert series at the Gerald R Ford Amphitheater in Vail. It's fun. They're really engaging communities and we get to be a part of that. So it's fun to both participate and be part of that fabric.
Nick Petrella:You know, going back to an earlier statement I think it was you Brian had mentioned about, you know engagement is so important. I have almost 30 years of sales experience and one of the things I talk about in my class is engaging and sales, because it's really important. The consultants at both Breckenridge locations greeted us. They were very engaging. So I'm wondering do you train your team with strategies on interacting with customers and, if so, what do you tell them?
Ross Raitman:That's both extremely flattering and a great question. Thank you. We're very blessed with the salespeople that we have right now. Shopping, especially in something as unique as an art gallery, should always be a great experience, in our opinion. We want our galleries to be warm, welcoming and fun pieces for all of our guests to visit.
Brian Raitman:I was only 25 when we opened and Ross was even younger, so we had no idea what we were doing. The thought of teaching somebody else to do what we were doing was not a thing. We've definitely learned how to do things a lot better. Perhaps the biggest part of that is hiring and training the right people. We train our crew regularly. For me, it's an ongoing thing. We're constantly bouncing ideas off of each other, reviewing interactions with potential customers and then really figuring out how we can all succeed together.
Ross Raitman:Yeah, I mean most of our sales staff pay is commission based. So, similarly to the artists, but on an even more intense level, we succeed together. So we've gotten, we think, really good at hiring people who are a little more extroverted, a little more engaging. Over the years I'm personally not that way and it was a bit of a struggle to really kind of come out of my shell and learn how to engage with people. We really try to make sure that our staff, that we're working within their own personalities and they don't sound robotic and they don't sound formulaic and that they're really engaging and showing themselves and showing their passion for the work. And some of that you can't teach.
Ross Raitman:So when we are going through a hiring process, we'll literally have people tell us about the art in our gallery and why they like it or don't like it, to kind of gauge if they'd be a good fit and expressing that passion that we have for the art that we show. We really don't like when people are fake, when they're just trying to sell something. We really don't like when people are fake when they're just like trying to sell something and they don't believe in it. So we look for people who who do like the work that we show um, and you know right now um, our staff's job you know it's to entertain our gallery visitors, make sure they have a good relationship, build that friendship, that rapport with the collector base. And we're just really lucky right now we have by far the best crew we've ever had at the moment.
Brian Raitman:Our crew, their family and some of the closest friends we've ever had. I was working with Sam yesterday. She's the first person we ever hired, which was 11 years ago. We worked the first six years with no employees, so we would know everything about this industry upside down, forwards, backwards, you name it and then, after six years, we hired Sam. She worked with us for a year and then her boyfriend at the time now her husband, his mom got really ill so they moved back east to take care of her. She's doing great now and they're married. Sam and Max are married Wonderful, great now. And they're married. Sam and Max are married Wonderful. So she in between working for us the first time and she eventually came back. She worked at a couple of museums Beautiful career. We're just talking about an installation she painted for a very, very well-known artist while she was at I think it was the Glenstone Museum and I was working with her yesterday realizing, you know, you came back to us Like, why, why, that's one of the most flattering things that's ever happened. We'll post the job listings both on local hiring platforms and then also on Indeed. Sam had applied out of the blue. We're like, yeah, we'll hire Sam. She, just being back tells me everything I've ever really needed to know.
Brian Raitman:I think it was two days ago. Somebody had bought a piece, a small piece, from Sam. They had met Liz the day prior. He walked out of the gallery. I happened to be standing by the front door. I think I was hanging a work of art right by the front door. He walked out of the gallery, took about two or three steps, did a double take, looked at me for whatever reason, came back into the door, said you must be the owner or something. I was like yeah or something. And he proceeded to spend the next probably five minutes telling me how amazing both Sam and Liz are and what a great experience he had in the galleries just learning and being entertained and laughing and enjoying the art with both of these women. So yeah, they're great.
Brian Raitman:I always said we wouldn't get rich at the expense of our salespeople, so we really work to embody that. We have a commission structure that's unlike anything we've ever seen at other galleries, just to make sure that our people really succeed. These are hard communities to live in. It has gotten really expensive, especially over the last four years, so making sure that our people truly thrive with us is of the utmost importance. It's wonderful they get paid first, then the artists, then ourselves, in that order. Religiously, somewhere in there it builds, but it is salespeople, artists bills us. That is so important when you're running a business like this.
Andy Heise:And so, speaking of running a business, starting and running a business is hard work. It's challenging. Having business partners in any business can also be challenging. Having business partners that are family can be even more challenging. So can you talk a little bit about the nature of the partnerships that you have here and what are some of the dynamics of operating the galleries as a family?
Brian Raitman:Yeah, family business is a unique entity, right? Honestly, it's pretty easy. Ross and I argue sometimes, but it's not too often. We grew up together so we understand our strengths and our weaknesses intimately. It really allows us to stay in our lanes. Most things in the galleries come naturally to one of us and not the other. Our parents are still involved too.
Brian Raitman:Be mad if we didn't mention that several times, probably, but they're effectively retired and they have been for a long time. So really everything on a day-to-day basis has been up to ross and I since he joined um, which is, gosh, like our second year, I believe. Um, if, if ross and I didn't know each other so well, it could be hard um, as it is. Sometimes I want to strangle him, but I usually know when he's making a mistake before it happens. He'd say the same exact thing about me. Um, so we understand when, when it happens, um, he's. He's super smart. Probably don't record that, but he's super smart and he has an engineering background. Um, I have a creative background. So the things that align best with the areas of expertise that we have or where we keep our our individual focuses. It's worked well for a really long time now yeah like brian said, we we don't argue too much.
Ross Raitman:I mean, we definitely do from time to time, but thankfully we haven't killed each other yet. We definitely talk way too much about work and family dinner conversations definitely center around the business, so it really drives our wives nuts if we're all together.
Ross Raitman:Um, you know, but being family means that we know that we can fight and be just fine the next day, move on and get back to work. We don't harbor ill will ever, because families fight. It's what we do, for better or for worse. We also try to make our team feel like they're part of the family too.
Andy Heise:Yeah, it's pretty good. I was just going to say it just kind of occurred to me that you're a family who owns and operates this business, and many times you've referred to people that work for you as family as well. So it just kind of clicked for me that that's probably a really important thing for them to feel like they're a part of that family, so that it's not quite as big of a separation or hierarchical or something like that.
Brian Raitman:Yeah, absolutely. Culture at a business is everything, and people feeling like their value is everything, and so for us to be coming at this from a family perspective I think I said earlier the artists are like family to us, or salespeople are like family to us I believe truly that the family business fabric is what drives our culture and it really just allows people to feel such a huge part of it. My background and the way that I see the world it really emphasizes that. For me, the people we work with are beyond important.
Brian Raitman:We could go back to doing this by ourselves. We have no intention of doing it, because it's way too fun to do it with other people. Sure, that's awesome.
Nick Petrella:So, as Andy said, I'm fascinated with how artists price their works and I usually bring it up in gallerist interviews. So let's pivot a bit and have you tell us how you deal with someone who's questioning the value of an expensive piece of art. How have you justified the price in the past?
Ross Raitman:Yeah, it's an interesting question because we do get that a bit. You know, we get the little kids that run in and run around like, oh my God, this one's $8,000. This one's $15,000. This one's $60,000, sixty thousand dollars, oh my god. Um.
Ross Raitman:So you know, if people are questioning it, it's a matter of quality. You know the way that we tell people. It's like if you want this type of great art, you have to pay for it. For an artist to create what they do and for us to be able to keep our doors open every day and present this to you so you can actually see it and enjoy it.
Ross Raitman:There's a certain price threshold that the art needs to be at for all of us to continue to do this. You know there's always the trope of the starving artists, but you know starving artists go away and if you want things to last, you know you need to pay for it. Make sure that the the art, artistic ecosystem keeps going. We have our artists set their prices, and a lot of them, you know, if they need to, they'll adjust upward. If they're, if they can't keep up with demand or if material costs are going up like crazy. You know, every artist that we work with is a full time artist. It's their full time profession and for them to be able to keep doing it full time, keep creating work for people to come in and be able to collect, they need to price it at a certain price point to be able to support that as their full-time profession.
Brian Raitman:I've noticed you guys talk about money and price on the podcast often. I think that's great. People think that the art world is struggling. It's not. Our price point goes from $179 all the way up to just under six figures. I see this true again and again and again. People think that pricing in art is subjective. It's not Just like every other industry. Pricing is based on people's resumes. It's based on supply and demand. Visual arts alone are something like a $66 billion industry. The last I looked, many people working within it have pricing down to a science.
Brian Raitman:We sell a lot of art. We always need our galleries to look a certain way, so if we price something too low and it sells too fast, we'll regret it, because then the gallery's not going to look as great for the next people coming through. At the same time, we're not going to show something that's priced outrageously. 17 years in has given us a great understanding of our market, so we know where that sweet spot is, so to speak. Frankly, our clients are far too smart. They're far too successful for us to not treat them respectfully in regards to pricing. When we're having price discussions, we'll let them know. That's how we view them. We'll ask for the same respect in terms of where we're at in our careers. It is all based on shared respect, and so those negotiations definitely happen in the gallery. Yeah, it is what it is, we don't mind it, we embrace it and, at the end of the day, the art finds a home.
Nick Petrella:It's a beautiful thing. So you had mentioned that the artist sets the price. But how much input do you have in that saying, hey well, it's too low, it's too high?
Ross Raitman:We almost make that judgment before we bring the art in. Part of what we look for when we're looking for artists is to make sure that they're at a spot in their career where their prices are in line with everything else that we're showing. When we were a younger gallery we'd take a lot more risk on kind of the quote-unquote emerging artists. These days we're really looking for people who do this as a profession and they've got a nice history of sales and they already have a good idea for where their prices will be.
Ross Raitman:We've definitely had artists that we've brought in that you know there's a really interesting fit with certain artists in certain galleries because we've tried some artists that we know had a great history of sales with other galleries and they don't do very well with us.
Ross Raitman:Or we've brought in artists who you know they've had an okay career. They haven't had like that big bump where they're selling like crazy and then they come in with us and for whatever reason, it's just the perfect fit and their sales go crazy and then they can't keep up with demand and then once they see that, and we see that, it's like, hey look, we literally have no inventory left. You probably need to raise your prices. So that way we at least have something on the wall for you, and it's been fun to watch some of our artists grow in value. You know we've got multiple artists whose prices have more than doubled since we brought their work in, just because the demand is there. The quality is getting there, because you know the more you paint, the better you get at it. It's just like anything else the more you practice, the better you get. So a lot of our artists the quality of work, even though it's technically the same artist, has improved drastically over the years, and with that it means a price increase.
Brian Raitman:I'd say it's pretty minimal the amount of input that we give, because of exactly what Ross said. We'll study a lot the artist's career, their price point, before we'll decide to work with them. But there are instances that are interesting, nathan Bennett in particular. He'd always worked small and just probably a year and a half ago he started to work large, four foot by four foot. They're not paintings I always want to call them that but they're done on metal and they're done in patina. He might be the only person in the world that's creating art like he is. Inarguably he's our nation's top patina artist. Pretty much let go of all the sculptors he was doing work for, because typically when you see patina it's on bronze, it's three-dimensional and it's a patin or finishing art for another artist. That's how Nathan was doing his life for a long time. Let go pretty much all the artists he works with so he could really focus on his own art, which for years and years and years was small. Again, a year and a half ago he started working large and so it's something totally new.
Brian Raitman:How do we price this? The first several pieces that he did for us we priced at $15,000. They price this right. So the first several pieces that he did for us we priced at fifteen thousand dollars. They sold immediately, um, a bunch of them, and we were like, well, this sucks, because I'd like to enjoy them a little longer than like a few days, um, so now they're priced at 19.5. Um, so you know, we definitely nathan is a dear friend. He and I talked about like, yeah, dude, like these are leaving quicker than I want them to leave, what do you want to do about that? He's like well, where do you want to go? I was like wherever you want to go, price point Somewhere in the conversation one of us said 19.5, and boom, there we are.
Brian Raitman:Didi LaRue is an artist we have shown for gosh since 2009. She's gone through some serious health stuff over the last several years. I was just at her studio a few weeks ago, literally working with her on putting some pieces together, because life has just been exceedingly difficult for this truly iconic artist in Colorado. She sculpts dogs hanging their heads out of real car doors. I mean, the pieces are dericot. Everybody, for so long while Didi was prolific, knew Rape Men Art Galleries and Didi LaRue, didi LaRue and Rape Men Art Galleries. When we brought them in, I think they were $2,700. We would get her commission list up to the point where she's working on a couple dozen commissions at a time. It was out of hand. It's wonderful, because what makes people more happy than a dog hanging its head out of a car window driving down the street? Right? There are very few humans that would not smile and laugh when they see that. And so, as she's struggled health-wise, her prices have gone up a lot. We'll grab anything we can off a secondary market. These days we have one of her pieces priced at $19.50. I don't know why it's the same as Nathan's pricing, but hey, it seems to work Because it's something we don't want to sell fast. It's what we're about is having those on the wall and oh, it'll totally sell. I have a feeling it'll go international too. Just a gut feeling. And yeah, again, we want the gallery to look a certain way.
Brian Raitman:Another good example classic Colorado artist Tracy Felix. We've worked with him since 2011. We sell his work as quick as we can get it. Now it's criminally underpriced. I tell him this from time to time. He wants his art to remain accessible, so he just doesn't raise his prices. He's been painting his entire life. Tracy's in his 60s. Now His work is super affordable for the quality that he's painting. It's kind of mind-boggling, but that's where Tracy wants to be. We let Tracy be exactly where Tracy wants to be, and it works. It's great, too, because that'll bring us a lot of young collectors.
Andy Heise:Sure yeah.
Brian Raitman:That's right, one-of-a-kind oil painting from an artist that's in the Denver Art Museum hanging prominently. I mean that price that you can get for him a few thousand dollars it's pretty incredible. So yeah, we kind of leave him alone. Let them tell us where it should be.
Andy Heise:It. Let them tell us where it should be. It's fun. Gateway art. Yeah Well, Brian and Ross, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions, and the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an art entrepreneur?
Ross Raitman:It's a lot of work. We've worked some really crazy hours over the years, making very little money for a long time while building the business up to what it is now. You know we focused on expansion quite a bit so we definitely weren't making much money because everything we were making was going right back into the gallery for a long time. So I'd say, be ready to work hard. You know a lot of people think that being a gallerist is a very plush white-collar job, but there's a lot of it that's blue-collar, that you've got to get your hands dirty and carry heavy stuff. Like I was saying earlier, drilling is stone walls.
Brian Raitman:Funny Ross and I both mentioned blue-collar, white-collar. With this answer, I'd say too many people think gallerists are just sitting around and waiting for people to come in and talk to them. That certainly is not the case. It isn't all fun and games. It certainly is not always a white collar job. It's not a party. Be ready to hurt yourself to hang a painting properly, remove a big sculpture. Be ready to work super late making the gallery look great. Be ready to spend all day, every day, working, living and breathing your business and perhaps, most importantly, fake it until you make it the gallery look great. Be ready to spend all day, every day, working, living and breathing your business and perhaps most importantly, fake it until you make it. People want to be a part of a successful business, so, even if it's not project that confidence until it is?
Nick Petrella:What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?
Brian Raitman:In our role. Come into art galleries. They are free. They are open every day. Slow down, take some time to check out the art Incredibly talented people are creating. We'll always be absolutely certain that our galleries are welcoming, warm and a fun experience. That's how we've built our brand. So just come in, they're there.
Ross Raitman:Great, yeah, and arts education is huge. Brian and I were both really lucky to be in school systems that had great art programs. Um, despite being horrible at creating art myself, I took classes every year from when I was all the way down in preschool all the way up through my senior year of high school, and being able to, you know, work with your hands and try to learn different styles of art, it really taught me an incredible appreciation for art, and I think that having that especially like we were in public schools, having those arts programs really helps people tap into their creative side and appreciate what art can do for humanity.
Andy Heise:Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've been given?
Ross Raitman:I had a professor in college who really lasered in on focusing on your core competencies. Running a small business is hard. Focusing on what you do well and balancing that with others who can fill in the gaps will lead you a lot further than you can get on your own.
Brian Raitman:For me, Dr Mara was a professor. I had my senior year in college at Temple University. He told me something that I carry with me all the time Sometimes good is good enough. If you're always trying to be perfect, you won't ever put anything out into the world, and I bet your good is better than so many people's perfect. So just get it done, put it out there and see what happens.
Nick Petrella:Well, Brian and Ross, thanks so much for being on the podcast. It was really great to hear your blue collar approach to art and art installations and we're definitely going to sign up for your newsletter.
Brian Raitman:It's a pleasure. Thanks for having us on. Thank you, Nick. Thank you, Andy. Such a joy to have chatting with you guys. Thank you both. It's such a joy to have chatting with you guys. Thank you.
