Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#295: Steve Giralt (Founder of The Garage) (pt. 2 of 2)
Today we released part two of our interview with visionary photographer and videographer, Steve Giralt. He combined his skill as a commercial photographer with his interest in robotics to create The Garage, a 10,000 sq ft studio in Brooklyn’s Industry City Complex, that’s fully-equipped for both photography and film shoots. Steve’s goal as a director is to push the art of tabletop cinematography forward, and empower artists to create their most innovative work.
Tune in to hear how Steve built his hugely successful production company and utilizes robots to help deliver his artistic vision and compelling story telling for top global brands such as Pepsi, Starbucks, Victoria’s Secret and the Wall Street Journal! https://www.the-garage.tv/
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making art work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. I'm Andy Heise and I'm Nick.
Nick Petrella:Petrella. Steve Giralt is on the podcast today. He combined his skill as a commercial photographer with his interest in robotics to create the Garage, a 10,000 square foot studio in Brooklyn's Industry City complex that's fully equipped for both photography and film shoots and film shoots. Steve's goal as a director is to push the art of tabletop cinematography forward and empower artists to create their most innovative work. Make sure you visit his website in the show notes to see the library of commercials he's made for some of the biggest brands in a variety of industries, including Pepsi, starbucks, victoria's Secret and the Wall Street Journal. Thanks for being on the podcast, steve.
Steve Giralt:Thanks for having me, guys. It's going to be a fun one.
Andy Heise:So can you describe the creative process that you go through and maybe highlight some things that you think are distinctive about the work that you all do?
Steve Giralt:Yeah, I mean, for us the creative process, like execution, is the easy part, right. It's always getting there and making sure the brand or the agency or whoever we're dealing with we're bringing everything we can of what we do to their process. We love to be involved in the onset of creative as early as possible because we can help shape it a little more than when they already have a baked out thing with storyboards and they have a vision already of what this should look like. Like it's hard to change that at that point. Uh so, but most often I'd say it's a brief from you know, either a brand director from an agency, and then you know we choose which director is best for the project. Let's say it's one of mine. Then you know, I do what's called a treatment where basically I put in words and PowerPoint presentations, whatever on how do I think we should execute this. Oftentimes we'll do storyboards on how I see this coming together.
Steve Giralt:Now we're doing more and more Unreal previs, so basically it's almost like moving storyboards through Unreal Engine, like you're in a video game a little bit, and then we pitch that off, we send an estimate that goes with that as far as what that costs, and then we get awarded a job, ideally, and then we get into execution, production, post-production, all the way through, watching it on TV or whatever it might go. So that's kind of the whole path and that path might be most often. I'd say it's probably like a one to two months kind of path. Sometimes it's as much as a year, you know, like on a big, huge project that has a lot of layers to it. The fastest has been like less than a week from like first contact till it's out, you know. So we can be very nimble, being that we have all this stuff and things and people to do a lot here. Yeah, that's right.
Nick Petrella:So if there's a teenager listening to this podcast who wants to do what you're doing, but can't afford even modest equipment, what do you think they should do to get started?
Steve Giralt:you know it is impressive today what people are doing with almost nothing, because you know a phone, you know, is so incredibly capable compared to like 10 years ago, what a camera could do, right. So you know, and there's so many Tik TOK videos and YouTube videos of people doing all these like commercials from their phone. And you know, I think, honestly, I think that's where you start right, like because it's storytelling first. Then you could level up the craft of the technical a little bit, like if you don't know the storytelling and how to cut between things, and you know how much time to spend on the product versus the person, versus what you're trying to sell. So I think I tell people just like, go out on your phone and start cutting things together, put them on your social media, you know, just start with that. And then you know, just like I did, right, I didn't go in straight to like seven robots and you know all this crazy 10,000 square feet and phantom cameras, like I just started with. Like once again, you get one new tool for your garage and you learn how to use that tool. Then you're like oh, okay, I use that tool to make some more money. No-transcript thing. The story is the same for like matt here too, as he got into photography too, it's like he's like oh, I got some bungee cord and a two by four and a c-stand and I'm like, now I had a thing to launch stuff, you know.
Steve Giralt:And so I think, honestly, start in your garage, your backyard, whatever it is, and just like, start playing around and then, you know, use the tools that you have to start getting those small jobs and then that'll lead to bigger jobs and then you could have fancier stuff. And you know like it is. It's all about that path too, right, it's like it's so important so many people look down at like, oh, but I'm not there yet. It's just like well, but you, you didn't have to learn everything it is takes to get there right, there's no skipping that you know it's. You have to put those hours and you have to play around. You have to learn those lessons, the good and the bad of like oh, whoops, you know what's the client expecting. You know nice catering, not just like. You know subway subs for lunch, or you know whatever it is like. And that's where, also, you know, I think, going back, we haven't really discussed like my early days of like working as a photo assistant and digital tech was also so important to like.
Steve Giralt:You know, I would work with a photographer that you know would bring like one light and his camera and a tripod to a shoot. Then I got to work on some huge Victoria's Secret shoot that had 30 people and lights in the ceiling and these huge set bills. I was like there's a lot of ways to do the same thing, but it's a matter of how much control do you need? What's the client expectation, what's the budget, all that stuff. I even got to work as a digital tech for Richard Avedon and show him how digital works.
Steve Giralt:It was fun days and I think so many people poo-poo, like, oh, I'm working for somebody else and these aren't my shoots. But I'm like, no, you're working for somebody else, they're paying you. The stress isn't on you. You get to learn while they're paying you and none of the stress of the end is on you. A very small amount compared to being the person in charge of that company let's call it or, you know, really leading that show, um, and you can see how different people do it differently, you know with all your experience?
Nick Petrella:have you ever gone back and looked at your first videos and just thought, oh my, these look like shaky video from hostage videos or something.
Steve Giralt:It's both, like, I look back at it and I'm just like, oh, color lighting, you know whatever it is. But then I also I'm like, oh, that was actually really smart how I did that. And like, oh, like, how I cut it a certain, edited it a certain way to, to, to, you know, cut around by, you know, lack of other things, right, like, I think that's a great thing about video too, right, is that the edit? You can really hide a lot if you're smart about how you do something, um, and still get a great end result that somebody might not know the wiser, that you know like, oh, you cut this whole shot out because it was out of focus, or there's no sound in that one take, because the mic battery died, or you know whatever it is that happens.
Steve Giralt:Um, you know, and you know I always say for people getting to film is like shoot a documentary or music video first, like step one, you know, like something where you get to just go explore and you know you don't have to worry about everything being perfect and there's a little artistic room for exploration. But, uh, you know, I think it's it's just about how you present it and I think that's really, and I learned that as a still photographer is like, okay, I've shot you know thousands of photos, but I'm only gonna put 25 in this portfolio to show you right and like, for all they know, that's what they all look like, you know. So I think there's something to be said about knowing how to present yourself both on your website, your social media, your YouTube, whatever format that you use these days and curate it and realize there is such thing as showing too much or too little, and finding the right balance between that on how you present your work.
Andy Heise:Yeah, and how do you steve personally approach the need for being creative and handling, uh, the day-to-day business activities that you've, that you've described, you know, throughout our interview so far?
Steve Giralt:yeah, uh, that is where the you know running a production company is definitely a challenge. Comparing to like when I was just a photographer, let's say, just um is, you know, especially when you have multiple employees, like now, you suddenly your day is filled with, like, how do I get the teams working together? Or you know this person, you know this person was mean to this person and I need to sit down with them and walk. You know, like, there's a lot of that and and and just cashflow too, like, oh, wow, like there was a strike for five months last year. And too like, oh, wow, like there was a strike for five months last year. And how do we survive that? Right, like, um, so, yeah, it's, it's not easy and it never gets. I don't think it ever gets easier because new challenges are thrown at you as an entrepreneur and like somebody's starting a business and you know I still contemplate where, like right now, this is 100, my funding and my everything in here. And you know, do I want to partner in someday, do I want to be part of a bigger entity? You know, for the stability of you know that cash flow and things like that, um, but for me it'd be more also about like being part of a piece of a bigger, even bigger puzzle, right and uh, those are still things that year, year after year, I consider, because it's just like, as our business change, as our strengths change, it's just like how do we leverage these the best in the current state of the industry that we're in?
Steve Giralt:But the time management of it like I always say, I can never get those creative treatments I talk about, right, like those take me at least. I probably need at least eight hours like dedicated to one, but I could. They can never be done during the day, like it's during the day there's like too much other stuff happening here, so I usually kind of do them from like 6 pm to like 2 in the morning, or you know whatever it is, and just like that's just the way those get done. You know it's just like um, and I let the you know people that do the design for the treatments know that by the morning you'll have what you need to get started tomorrow. It might be 2 in the morning, it might be midnight, it might be 4 in the morning, but just don't worry about getting started until the morning. It'll be there one way or the other, and also knowing when to bring in more help, right to bring in more help, right To like, whether it's junior help or, you know, senior help or just freelance help.
Steve Giralt:For one thing it's also, you know, understanding.
Steve Giralt:Okay, I know this is coming up next week, I'm going to be busy on all these meetings, all the thing.
Steve Giralt:But this also, you know, and I think the one that gets dropped the most is the marketing ball. You know, like we're like in self-promotion and all those things, because it's just like, oh, we're really busy on real jobs, like I don't have time to be out there marketing and doing things, and you know that's we're having, you know, the sales reps and having the two executive producers that could go out and do meetings and, you know, do all that, but until they have new creative stuff to sell, that's still on us right like on the creative side of the garage to like always be making new work and making new interesting stuff. And you know, for better or worse, the client work isn't always our best work, right Cause, like when we have full control of the stories we want to tell, we could really do some fun stuff, where you know, obviously each client has their own, it's the best work for that client, but it's not necessarily always the best project because you're limited to the rules of advertising.
Nick Petrella:Steve, you had mentioned the deconstructed burger video and I was blown away by that behind-the-scenes video that you have and we're going to make sure we link to it. The artistry, the technical aspects of robotics, videography and engineering that are needed to create that is mind-boggling To me. It just illustrates the need for colleges to emphasize cross-campus collaboration. Since you've probably worked with a lot of young professionals over the years, do you think recent college grads in photography or advertising are prepared to work closely with both arts and technology?
Steve Giralt:Yeah, oh, that's a loaded question. The educational institution is a very slow moving one, as I've learned, and they know it. You can see right behind me here. Nyu just moved out here to Industry City Also they're Martin Scorsese Virtual Production Film Center basically. So they're actually going to be teaching a master's program on LED volume virtual production starting in two weeks or something like that. It's a brand new huge volume. They built over there all that. So I've once again gotten an insight into the NYU side and they started planning this four years ago and it just opens now and that's ahead of the time. Virtual production four years ago compared to today, it's crazy.
Steve Giralt:So I think A it depends what school you go to. I think that has a big part. Rit is very technical, you know, and they try to get you business. Once again. My degree was advertising photo right, like where most fine art photo.
Steve Giralt:Don't talk about making money in this industry whatsoever in any way, but nonetheless, I think you know schools are only honestly, I think kids in school should be there to play first. You know like I think kids in school should be there to play first. You know like I think that's their time where learn who they are as creative as people you know like, have, have them explore different things, have them fail in this wonderful safe place which is a grade and a letter and whatever you know. And I think that the industry is there to help them stay up to date with how the industry works. You know like, that's where I think internships, co-ops, you know, whatever it is, are also super important Because, you know, no matter what they do, the teachers are always slightly outdated because they're not working professors. Well, it depends on the school if they're adjuncts, whatever it is, but generally the tenured professors especially, you know, aren't necessarily in the industry as it is today and changing every few months.
Steve Giralt:I think that's where I'd say education is there to do its best and give them the space to play and to challenge them as people and as individuals, because once you're in the real world, nobody gives a shit about you anymore, right? Like? Then you're just like you're feed them to the wolves and good luck, kid. You know, and I think that is unfortunate, I feel like there's so much room for continuing education. You know as well. You know like, all the courses I took were all continuing ed courses, you know, and I think like, especially as the.
Steve Giralt:You know once again, like as the you know once again, like as the world changes, right, like you need to re-educate, like you can't just use what you learned when you're 20s, you know, when you're in your 40s, like the world has changed, you know.
Steve Giralt:And I think uh, that's where I think I would love to see more institutions that are, you know, funded really well by governments, by whoever you know, be able to open the doors, like I would love to see a Scorsese virtual production film school for continuing ed, where DPs and gaffers that are working in the industry today could go in and play with it and understand it, even if it's just weekend workshops or one-week intensives, whatever it is, and I think this has brought a lot of that knowledge to play in that there's the need for Unreal Engine artists that understand this whole new process is crazy, and the fact that there's a whole new need for it.
Steve Giralt:But to rewind to your question a little bit, because I know I went off a little bit as far as collaboration, cross-campus, being able to leverage creativity and engineering and bringing those people together, I think schools could definitely do a better job about it. And even just photo and video. You're either a photo major or you're a video major. It's like no, no, no, just your image makers together. Get as many people together into a room together and they could explore either side of that, because, once again, staring at one frame has a value and staring at, you know, a 30 second clip also has a value as what you learn from it and that what you used the term visual engineer, didn't you?
Nick Petrella:one of the interviews?
Steve Giralt:yes, do you still use that not as much. It confused clients more than it was worth. But yes, no, I mean it was a great term for what I was right, it was like really a visual engineer, you know is like bringing all this engineering in with you know the storytelling side of it.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, certainly applicable for here, and you know it wasn't meant to be a loaded question, it was a genuine question. Andy and I both teach, and how do we we're here, how do we get to the next step? And it's probably not going to be through silos.
Steve Giralt:Yeah, right, right, yeah, exactly that's where the amazing thing about the internet and all the knowledge online is great, because you know it becomes more accessible to people, having not having to pay $80,000 a year for an NYU master's program, not to say that doesn't have a different value to it itself. But I think the more technology level as we've seen this going from film to today on my phone I could shoot amazing things if I know what I'm doing and I'm, you know, cautious of about how I do it, you know. So that technological hurdle to being an image you know storyteller is is dropping Right and right, right, right. Well, now we just need good storytellers, you know, and you know how do we find those? You know, and I think speaking to AI as well is just like, okay, great, it's just like, but what do you want it to do? It still comes down to.
Steve Giralt:There's got to be somebody driving the bus. And if they don't know what they really want or they don't have a vision, then who cares how you did it? Whether you did it with a film camera, you did it with a digital camera, you did it with AI, you did it with the film camera, you did it with you know, digital camera, you did it with ai, you did it with unreal engine, like whatever it is you know. So I think it comes down down to the basics. More than ever now. It's like understanding what has worked in all the storytelling we've done in you know, literature and film and everything up to today you know, and I think those and that's what that's.
Steve Giralt:One thing that college is really good at teaching people is those boring art history classes and all the stuff that you go through because you have to. But I think understanding that is so important If you're prompting AI knowing what real three-point perspective looks like and what lighting should look like and I always said this because years know, years ago I advised that fit for while they're redoing their curriculum and it was just like you could teach somebody how to a lighting course on how to light you know diamonds, or you can teach them how to light, you know, like understand light, you know. And one, let's give them one skill. One wouldn't give some infinite skill in an area you know.
Steve Giralt:Obviously it's harder to teach more generic because now you have to cover different things, um, but to me I think, as far as educational institutions go, like, they have to think about, you know, like life skills, beyond this micro focus on this one thing. But because, once again also, kids now don't want to just do this one thing, right, they want to. You know, I want a new job every three years, you know, yeah, yeah can you tell us about the green um green at the garage initiative?
Andy Heise:I was reading about that on your website. What is it and how did it come to be?
Steve Giralt:yeah, so hayley started that up, uh, my studio manager turned executive producer, um, and it's just like, have you I don't know if you've ever been on a food shoot or a film shoot, you know the amount of waste that is created is. I mean, we'll get like four pallets of freaking arby's roast beef and, like you know, it's like it's insane to see how much stuff comes in and out of here and we wanted to do something to kind of try to offset that as best we can. So that was kind of the spark, for it was that. So we actually went through this whole process where we had to actually weigh all our garbage on shoots for like a few different shoots and we I forgot the name of the company that you had to go through for all this stuff but our electrical bills for each shoot, how many people traveled, how many airline miles, like hotels, like cars, ubers, like they kind of calculate the whole carbon footprint of a shoot and then basically we actually charge our clients a green charge for each shoot. Now that goes towards offsetting our carbon footprint from the shoots that we do. So that's one part of it.
Steve Giralt:And then also just little things like making sure we have a water tap so people can refill their water bottles and we're not using plastic bottles, and make sure catering is not using disposable stuff, if we have regular forks and knives that we could use, and you know, just all the little things we could also add on top of that that are kind of easy.
Steve Giralt:But some productions are like, yeah, we don't want to deal with that, you know. And then now the really interesting thing with this new virtual production stuff is that we could not build sets if we don't need to. Right, we could put a virtual setup on the wall, shoot in front of it, put a couple things and it feels like we built a huge thirty thousand dollar worth of lumber and labor and you know, said that would otherwise just get torn away and thrown away into a dumpster. To also like we have a lot of it's funny like we shoot so much junk food, you know, and a lot of the food banks and stuff won't take it. But we found a lot of churches love it, you know they're like yeah we'll take all the Pepsi, we'll take the chocolate, you know.
Steve Giralt:So we've created a whole network of churches and institutions and community centers and stuff here in Brooklyn that will take almost everything from the shoots that we do too. So we just try to make sure that. You know, obviously, if it was actually bad you know bad as far as it was touched or it was left out or anything obviously that goes in the garbage, but as much of it just comes in and it goes right back out, um, because oftentimes the clients don't want the stuff back, they're like oh yeah, no, that was for you. Like we don't want it. Where are we gonna put it in our office? You know, uh and yeah, so that's generally the.
Steve Giralt:The gist of green at the garage is like how do we minimize our impact? Uh, you know, because I always say we're like carnies, you know like. You know like when you think about a film production, like they, they come in, they set up all this stuff and then they break it all down, they leave. You can tell the ground got a little beat up and something happened here. But that's kind of what we are glorified carnies, in a way, with cameras, and try to minimize that impact, very Burning man style, right where they're trying to leave no impact out there, which I which I think it's going on right now actually, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nick Petrella:So, since what you do is storytelling, do you have plans to do more long form media, such as maybe short films or documentaries?
Steve Giralt:I think I will, I think you know I. You know. It's funny, though, like the most common thing we do now are 15-second commercials it used to be 30s, now they're 15s and six-second cuts downs and it's like we put so much effort into every one of those frames and it's kind of crazy. And there's something when I go watch I love movies and episodic and all the amazing stuff that shows are doing now too and just like, oh, I could sit on that for like 30 seconds, that one shot and nothing. Nobody's going to say anything, it's just going to be like, uh, there's something really exciting to that.
Steve Giralt:And also, as a collaborative filmmaker you know cause I'm a director and a DP, you know, I think, even working as a DP which I've worked with other directors in that format as well I think it'd really be fun. And once again, I have a tend to do something and then I get eventually need to keep it more exciting and shift a little bit. And I think somewhere down the line, I think that shift will be part of my path where I'm just like trying to do a short film in a really, you know, in a really really cool way. Hopefully, yeah, with a good story.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, absolutely cool way, hopefully, yeah, yeah, with a good story. Yeah, absolutely yeah. Well, next door you have a film school exactly, I know I wanted to apply.
Andy Heise:They're like no steve, yeah steve, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions, and the first question is what advice would you give to someone else wanting to become an art entrepreneur?
Steve Giralt:Make sure you really want to do it. That's step one, right, like it is not, uh, an easy well, nothing's easy in life like, oh, that sounds easier. No, like honestly, uh, you know, be passionate about it and make sure that you know whether you're making money, or you're struggling or not, or you're making tons of money, like it's still the thing you want to be doing and it's something that truly excites you, um, and that, you know, for some people it's about the business more than the art. But I think, uh, finding that right balance for you is also very important, because I always tell people there's three pillars that hold up what we do. It's like there's the business side, there's the creativity and there's the technical. So see which of those three you're most excited about and decide, if you have a balance of the three, to start a business that's an art, you know, kind of business of some sort. Or, if you literally have no interest in business, then find a partner that does. You know, maybe that's the way to go too right.
Steve Giralt:I don't think. I think I've seen great things come in individuals and in partnerships, you know, because then you have two people that are really strong at two separate things and they come together and it's like boom, this magic thing. I mean thinking back at garages and, like Apple and Hewlett Packard, all these companies that started in garages and it was usually this very small team that kind of came together and they each had their vertical. You know of the thing that they did right. So I think for somebody that wants to get into this kind of a business, uh yeah, have passion for it and you know, understand what you're not, you're long. You don't think 20 years out, nobody knows what's going to happen in 20 years. Like, think about where you want to be in a year or two, you know. I think you know and have a five-year hope and dream plan. But I think you know realist, be realistic about the fact that things take time to develop, you know. Yep.
Nick Petrella:What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?
Steve Giralt:Yeah, I mean I think we talked a little bit about continuing education for the arts. You know, trying to keep arts in the schools, you know even earlier on, you know I think is is a struggle, cause with budget cuts, you know even earlier on, you know I think is a struggle because with budget cuts, you know they'll keep the sports, they'll cut the arts. You know, and I think you know that is the worst thing that we could be doing, because you know the technical stuff is only going to get easier all across the board. You know, and the simple knowledge that you gain too, like, I think, whether you're an accountant, an engineer, a lawyer, whatever creativity still plays such an important role about how do we revisit new problems that we're going to have down the road. So I think we try to host educational programs here at the Garage too.
Steve Giralt:Actually, just last week we had this first thing called Virtual Production, un production, unplugged. We had a two-day event where we brought in probably a couple 200 people come in showing them the basics of virtual production, how does it work. We had panel talks breaking down for producers also to understand how to leverage it and how to sell a client on it and all the things. We also do a lot of motion control, robotic things here as well, I think, to all the other art entrepreneurs out there too is like share your skill with the next generation. You know we, we need that fresh blood in in in the industry.
Steve Giralt:You know, I think sometimes, uh, people just think about themselves where they are today. But I think you know that's how I got here today was the people I assisted, for that helped me and went that extra level to explain stuff to me, show me the inside of their books and what things really cost and how we pay people and all that. So I think it's in all our hands, both people that are in education and not as far as keeping art accessible and sharing a little peek behind the curtain as to you know how things are done.
Andy Heise:Yeah, great. Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've been given?
Steve Giralt:Wow, that one's a tricky one, cause there's there's a couple of good ones there. Can I give you more than one? Oh, absolutely, absolutely Okay. Well, one's very short and sweet. It's nine women can't make a baby in one month, which is like some things just take time to be made. Like you could throw all the money you want at it and you could throw all this stuff and just realize that some things just take time.
Steve Giralt:You know, someone tried to explain things to a client of like why can't we come up with all this? And like this time it's just like because it's just not possible, right? And then I think, as far as other advice I give people and that people have given to me, is just like Do what you do well and focus on that first. You know like I think you can get really excited about this other initiative and this other idea and it's, you know like I think, fine, your fine tune what you do today really well, before you move on to the next thing. You know, because I think I was, you know, guilty of that a little bit too much at the beginning.
Steve Giralt:We're trying to do like too many things all at the same time and I think when things have been best for my business is when I really focus in on what should Steve be doing today to get my business to the next level, not what are all the things Steve's interested in doing? And you see that on Shark Tank all the time too, where they'll tear the people apart. You're trying to do this. He's like no, no, no, just do the one thing, get that going and then, yes, we can talk about other products. I think going too big, too fast, I think is a challenge. I think take it day by day and just do what you do, refine it and then add that next layer when you think you're there.
Nick Petrella:Perfect. Well, Steve, thanks so much for being with us. You have such a fertile mind. It's going to be great seeing how far you take the garage.
Steve Giralt:Thank you so much, guys. This was a lot of fun. Thanks, Steve.
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