Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#323: Craig & Ally Black (Visual Artist) (pt. 1 of 2)
This week on the podcast is part one of our interview with Craig and Ally Black, the Founder and Managing Director respectively for Scottish visual artist Craig Black. Craig is renowned for his innovative “Acrylic Fusion” technique— a hand-poured paint process that creates mesmerizing art.
His art has been exhibited in London, Sydney and Dubai, and his style and versatility has led to collaborations with global brands including FIFA, Porsche, Red Bull, Jaguar, the NBA and the NFL.
Make sure you check out Craig’s website to see his stunning artwork! https://craig.black/
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making art work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise
Nick Petrella:and I'm Nick Petrella.
Nick Petrella:We're joined today by Craig and Ally Black, the founder and managing director, respectively, for Scottish artist Craig Black. Craig is renowned for his innovative acrylic fusion technique. It's a hand-poured paint process that creates mesmerizing art. Craig's art has been exhibited in London, Sydney and Dubai, and his style and versatility has led to collaborations with global brands including FIFA, porsche, red Bull, jaguar, the NBA and the NFL. Make sure you check out Craig's website to see his amazing artwork. Thank you both for being here.
Craig Black:Thanks for having us.
Craig Black:Yep, that was a lovely lovely introduction. Thank you so much.
Nick Petrella:Thank you. I picked up most of that from your website. Well, let's begin by having craig tell us how he started and transitioned from a professional soccer player to becoming a visual artist so going back back, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago now yeah, a long time, 20 years ago now.
Craig Black:So I used to be a professional football player or soccer player, depending where you are in the world listening to this for my local team, which was Greenup Martin Football Club. Growing up, all I ever wanted to do was become a football player and I fortunately got to do that. But what happened was when I was in high school. I was heavily into sports and football, but I had a great passion for art and design and it was a place where I could get lost and not think about the world of sport. So what happened was I got offered a contract at a very early age I was roughly 15 or 16 years old at the time and to go play full-time professional football which is the dream.
Craig Black:But myself and I had a very an influential art teacher who played a pivotal person in my life and still does to this day. His name's Mr Murray. He's actually full name's Paul Murray, but I still feel awkward. Calling him Paul Mr Murray feels easier for me. But between him and my mother and the school and the football club there was a special agreement in place, which was I would go train with the first team in the morning, go do training and then in the afternoon I would go back to high school and then study art and design. And I did that for one year, got my qualifications and then for the next four to five years I went and played football professionally.
Craig Black:At that time that was unheard of in Scotland, even in the UK, so it was really nice and it put a lot of pressure on me to develop it and fortunately I did. But over those years of playing professional football the dream wasn't what it was meant to be and it was very frustrating and it was a place I wasn't enjoying anymore, to be brutally honest. So we got to the point where I decided to step away from the game and everyone was shocked Because I had the team offered me a new contract, other teams across the world, all this stuff, and I said, no, I just want to find something that makes me happy. So that day after leaving that meeting, the first place I went to was the pub because I thought that's the best place to go. That's where you find happiness, because you're bearing straight.
Craig Black:Yeah. So I walk into the pub and the first person I see is Mr Murray, my art teacher, which was so weird. So he says to me like what's happening in your life? And I just offload and explain I've left football, have no idea what to do with my life and he said these wise words to me Craig, you were s*** at football anyway. Why don't you go study graphic design or art? And I was like, okay, what's this Graphic design? So before you know it, he said to me I'll get you enrolled in an interview for a college in Glasgow, back here in Scotland. But I said I've not got a portfolio, I've not got any of my work from like five years ago. I've got nothing. And he said to me meet me tomorrow at my house, I've got something to show you. So the next day I've got a hangover. I head up to his house, still have no idea what I'm going for, and I knock on the door and he says come in. And he walks out and he has my portfolio from five years ago. Wow. And he said to me I knew you were going to need this one day and I've never kept this for a student before. And this is for you, and I'm very emotional because I was like bursting into tears. And it was such a special moment because that portfolio got me into college based on not done anything for five years. Not done any drawing, no painting, no, nothing.
Craig Black:In that first college course, when I went to do graphic design, I instantly fell in love with the art, the world of creativity and I found my happiness and that was the trajectory where I went. So then I studied graphic design and I actually graduated and then worked with a few agencies in London but and on the background, I was working on typography and lettering. So I ended up becoming an independent designer specialising in typography and lettering, and I did that for six years and I achieved everything in that field that I wanted to do. But the biggest thing about all of this is in the background. Art has always been the greatest passion and it formed all from my childhood. Even when I was playing football, all those creative elements were coming out to me. So when I transitioned into becoming a visual artist, the background from sports to graphic design to now becoming an artist all played a part in all that. So it's been a journey and it's been a lot of pivots along the way, but it's been fascinating.
Nick Petrella:And how fantastic that your mentor did that.
Craig Black:I know you had no idea I know he's such an incredible human being and he still, he still plays a part in our life, and the last time he was in this, I mean not that long ago, and he was still telling me off as if I was still a student again why are you doing this, do this, and I just, I just, I love it, cause no one else.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, that's what you need. Don't sugarcoat it. Yeah, had you had he not been there, you could have still been at the pub Exactly After all these years. Before Andy asked this question, what position did you play?
Craig Black:I played. I played as a fullback on the right hand side, full. I played as a fullback on the right-hand side of the field, back. It was one of those accidental moments where someone said, can someone play right back? And I was like I can do that. I played one amazing game and that was me stuck there for the next six years. But yeah, I did love it. I enjoyed football, but it was definitely the right time to move on. Yeah great.
Andy Heise:That's how I got started playing the bass. Our bass player in eighth grade had moved away. And does anybody want to play the bass? Sure, yeah, sometimes you need a volunteer. It worked out because I was one of the tallest kids in eighth grade as well. It's funny Playing the upright bass, yeah.
Nick Petrella:I thought you were going to say you got kicked off the soccer team.
Andy Heise:Oh no, no, that was later in life. I quit playing basketball to join the jazz band. The problem was the jazz band played at the basketball games and so I decided to do jazz band instead. And the other problem was I was in a rock band and rock bands typically play on Friday and Saturday nights and during the basketball season I was always playing basketball on Friday or Saturday night, so you can't Anyways, yeah, this isn't about me.
Ally Black:It's a great story.
Nick Petrella:No, it is. Hang on, guys.
Andy Heise:So you've done a lot of things graphic design, type, uh type, typography and, um, probably what, as nick mentioned in the beginning, what you're most known for is your acrylic fusion technique and that's kind of become your signature style. Um, how did you go about establishing that distinct visual brand or identity and what role has that played in in your, in your career as an artist?
Craig Black:so the actual, the inspiration behind acrylic fusion was actually ali's gym leggings. Okay, so our gym leggings. So one day this is going back seven years ago I'm in the house at the time doing design stuff and Ali walks in the door and she's got these gym leggings on and they've got this crazy pattern on them which resemble acrylic fusion. She starts speaking to me but I've zoned out because I'm staring at her legs going how does someone create that pattern?
Ally Black:like he does very often. Yeah, just switch off.
Craig Black:Yeah, of course I say this out loud to Ali and she's going what are you talking about? So I quickly go onto YouTube and I type in paint mixing, paint pouring, and you know how you watch one video, watch another and you're in a hole. Oh yeah, gone right. I was like, wow, that's paint pouring world. This is, this is unreal. Like I was getting a real exciting for it.
Craig Black:So I literally ran out the house and I went to a craft store and got all the kind of rudimental acrylic paints pouring me do a small canvas. And I went back home and I was just like I need to do this, need to try this, whatever this pouring thing is, and I created this canvas and this artwork. I had an old iphone and an old tripod over my shoulder so I could watch the process afterwards, because it's quite fast, smart, but as I was doing this, the instantaneous of it was was gratifying and I loved the vivid colors, the pattern I was making and because it was very unique what you were creating, but also the problem solving element to it. So whether it's a certain color doesn't flow the right way, or how you adapt to the shape or form, and I loved it. I mean, I had such a buzz from that little small canvas that I did, and, weirdly enough, in that moment, I was like this is the thing that's going to change my life. This is the thing I'm going to do as an artist, because, prior to that moment, I was like this is the thing that's going to change my life. This is the thing I'm going to do as an artist, because, prior to that moment, all I ever wanted to become was a visual artist, and, as we, as artists, we try to figure out what our thing is, what, what is the thing gets us excited, and that was the moment for me, and I was like I'm going to double down on this. So what I did in that moment, though, was I had a successful career as a typography designer, but for two years in the background.
Craig Black:From that moment, I started practicing acrylic fusion. In the background, so I was working on my craft, perfecting my technique, constantly evolving, and I was challenging myself in different ways because I had this dream of being a full-time visual artist. I had to make sure, when that time came, that I was ready for most challenges along the way. Whether can you paint on this, can you paint on that object and I'm like, yes, yes, and I could as much as most. This time I'm like, oh, I've got no idea, but you, but I had some sort of basis to go from. So two years of practicing in the background led to the moment of announcing to the world, and the only person I knew was was you. And so to anyone obviously everyone who's listening you're wondering what acrylic fusion is. Acrylic fusion is essentially acrylic paints mixed together to create interesting and mesmerizing effects on anything I can get my hands on. I basically throw this paint on various different objects, products for brands he makes it sound so easy, but it's really not that easy.
Ally Black:Trust me, I've tried. It doesn't look easy.
Craig Black:Yeah you get it something. Oh, he's just pouring paint. It's easy to do, and I say, try it. You try it and it goes, and it never looks as good and I'm like, ah, it's because I spent years and years of crafting away in the background and that is what's led to all these amazing collaborations and it's played a huge part in our life, because Ali's now part of the business and we're now a family business and we take a little girl with us, olivia, to all these places across the world, and it's opened up so many more doors that we could only dream of.
Ally Black:And this, honestly, no exaggeration was born from the gym leggings. I go, I go to the gym for an hour, an hour and a half tops and I come back and all this has been, you know, born, yeah, from that moment do you still have those, those leggings? Do you know? They don't fit me anymore.
Nick Petrella:They were well leggings, but I'll keep them forever well, I was going to say, like over here in the United States people have their first dollar framed yeah, yeah, those leggings we do, I've specifically kept them in our drawer because we were framed.
Announcer:Yeah.
Ally Black:Yeah, we do those leggings we do. I've specifically kept them in our drawer because we know that that's the story and yeah, I know that's really.
Andy Heise:It's such a great story of you know. So you're already involved in the art world, you're, you're actively working professionally, and then sort of this, this, this idea, and you develop that idea. It's sort of the opportunity record wait a second, that's really interesting. Nobody, I don't see anybody doing that. And then you develop that over time until what was the official like launch, what was the first like acrylic fusion piece that you put out into the world and said this is what I do.
Craig Black:So the story goes well I the typography world. I accomplished everything that I ever dreamed about doing in that world. So if there's anyone listening who is a Rangers football club fan right back here in Scotland, I'm a massive Rangers fan and when I was in college back years and years ago, my dream, which I said internally was, the day that I do the typeface for Rangers, I'm going to stop doing typography and then I'm going to pivot to being a visual artist. So I got the dream project in typography which was doing the typeface for Rangers. So I got to do that, which is a dream come true for me, my friends and family. So that was the top of the mountain in terms of typography. So, weirdly enough, it was such a successful project. I was getting offers from bigger teams in the Premier League and across in Spain Can you do our typeface? And I had zero interest I mean zero interest something that you love and you're connected to emotionally um, just, I put my heart and soul into that and I meant so much. So it was time for me to pivot. Leave it there, the peak of my powers, I guess. Um, but in the background of those two years I was perfecting acrylic fusion. So I didn't know. I'll be honest, I didn't know what I was going to launch with until I finished that moment.
Craig Black:Now our daughter was born, um, in the august time of 2020. I had to double check this, um, and I decided to step away from typography. And I I was speaking to a friend about I would love to find a new studio, because we had a two bedroom flat at the apartment at the time and the bedroom was my office and Olivia took that over, so I had to find a new space. So whether I was finding a new space was whether it was an office or is it an art studio. And I came across an art studio and I was like this is the universe talking to me right here. So this, the current studio we're in right now. I came in and it was a white wall, just blank. And I came in here and it was in January time and I thought, s***, what am I going to do? What is I do? What do I do next with Acrylic Fusion?
Craig Black:Now, the fortunate thing is me Scotland, the national football team, first qualified for the Euro 2020 tournament, which was the first time in 22 years. So it's a lot of heartache for a lot of Scottish people. So when we qualified, it was such a big moment for everyone in Scotland and it was one of those in the shower moments where you just go ah, how would acrylic fusion be like? Poured on a football in the Scotland brand colours? And I thought I'm going to try that today. So I got a football, got the brand colours from the paint store, came into the studio and I did my very first paint pour on a football and once it, once I completed it, I said hell, this is amazing. I'm sorry for swearing, but that was the real words. It's unbelievable. So I phoned you didn't I? And Ali was on a maternity leave and it was, um, she was pushing Olivia in the pram.
Craig Black:I said you need to come here right now and come see this. And she's like what is it? It's like just come and see. I'm not saying anymore. She walks in the door and you're like, wow, this is unbelievable. So she's seen that ball and I thought, right, this is a hook, this is, this is the thing that I want to announce with.
Craig Black:But my strategic business brain, entrepreneurial brain, kicked in and said, rather than just launching one football, why didn't I do a selection of footballs of certain teams that are participating in the tournament and leading up to the kickoff, which was in June. So I had five to six months to get this all prepared off, which was in June. So I had five to six months to get this all prepared. But what I wanted to do was show the whole world the process, because when you see the final completion of one of these football artworks it looks like it's been printed, but I wanted to show it's been painted on right. So we brought in a videographer and photographer. Sworn into secrecy don't tell anyone, don't? That's just like. This is the thing that's going to announce the world. This is what we're doing and we spent five months putting that together.
Craig Black:And this is another kind of personal story to it is we put a lot of all of our money on the line to bring this to life, like a lot of our time and effort, because I had a vision of how I wanted to be and I created so much content.
Craig Black:So it was like six weeks worth of content for the whole tournament. So, to give you an example, when England were playing, I would launch the England ball, spain Bixbursa, all those kind of things, but it would be imagery. It would be video. It would be video, it would be all these kind of amazing things. So me and Ali, we literally put all our money into this project. Again, no one in the world knew I was a visual artist. No one knew I was doing this, and the funny thing is I launched it the week before the Euros kicked off, and I launched this kind of compilation video and I thought I always believed it was going to work. I'm a big believer in manifestation and visualization, like we both are, and I had no doubt in my mind this was going to work. But that just I mean the second.
Craig Black:Before I was about to publish, I was like wait a second we've done everything on the line, that thought, and then it was just a part of me going just go for it, go. And we hit launch and that video changed our whole life. It totally changed our life in a nonstop.
Nick Petrella:So are you getting? Are you just going to the sporting goods store getting balls? Are you going to the companies getting them?
Craig Black:Are you getting seconds? Maybe that won't be good for play, but could be fine for this to save money that way. This is where we. So when we put all our money into this, there was a lot of r&d, right, okay? So a lot of.
Craig Black:So I would have to buy a brand new football, um, and it was a blank football from I think it was amazon and it was. I can't remember how much it was, but what you see is seven. I think it's seven balls in total, but the reality is I must have used about 40 or 50. But the thing is, when you paint on one ball, you don't, you can't just repaint on it, you need to. It's like one shot and that's it. So you accumulate all that, plus all the paints, plus Ali being on my case saying that's too much, that's too much and it all just kind of was building up.
Craig Black:But I just we had a sure belief it was going to work, didn't we? And yeah, so we. But I was. I was figuring it out as a goal, like it wasn't as if I practiced beforehand. It was like I've done the Scotland ball, now I'm going to try for Spain, I'm going to try for England, and I was practicing, but at the same time there was pressure because I had a deadline. I had to make sure it looked good. And so now that I look at the footballs I did four years ago compared to now, there's a huge difference, a huge difference in them. But back in that early stages we were trying everything and fortunately it worked out for us all yeah, well, you mentioned ali, as I'll say cfo, but you're the managing director.
Nick Petrella:So did you become the managing director before or after you were married, and what's it like working professionally with a spouse and you can both answer that?
Ally Black:yeah, so it's interesting how it all came about. To answer your question, it was after we got married. I had another job when Craig started his own business and he was doing his own studio and graphic design. We were together at that time and we were living together and I was always in the background of the business so I understood sort of where it started, how he built it, understood the kind of basics of the business and we always sort of where it started, how he built it, understood the kind of basics of the business and we always because Craig always just worked on his own, he was a one-man band, he didn't have a team. So I guess I was his unofficial team member from the start where I would help him with proposals, I would help him with his accounts, I would help him with a bit of copy for social media posts, very informally, because I had another job. I was employed there for years. I worked in a prison. I was actually a mental health nurse for a long time in a prison while Craig was building this business.
Ally Black:It's always been a goal of ours to work together. We just didn't really know when was the right time to go about that. So when Craig pivoted into becoming an artist. That was actually at the exact same time that I was on maternity leave and it was also during lockdown. So we were together way more than we normally would be on a normal day. So naturally I just started to take on more of the roles within the business. So I took a much. I was much more involved in the business than I ever had been before again informally, because I was just around a lot more. And then we got the opportunity to go to Nashville, tennessee, on an artist residency for five weeks, which was incredible. It was awesome. I loved it, oh, we loved it much.
Ally Black:So Craig got the opportunity to do that not long after he had announced himself as an artist and we all went along as a family and it was during that time Craig was juggling work back home in the UK. He had other projects going on in the States. He had the residency in Nashville where he was essentially on site between 10 and 4 every day. I was there, our little girl was there and he sat me down one night and he said, ali, this is just too much for me to do alone. It is so much work juggling all these different time zones. He said I really, really need you to take a much more forward-facing role within the business, and I remember it so well.
Ally Black:We sat one night it was about nine o'clock on a Tuesday night. He had a big meeting with a client the next day and he said okay, I've made you an email address, it's alison at craigblack and you're the managing director and you've got a call tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock with this client in San Francisco. So, okay, right, I knew I had to step up, though, because I could see the toll it was taking on him as holding all that himself and as well. At the same time, I knew everything that was going on in the background, because I was there, I was listening to all the previous conversations and calls and I knew all about it. So, anyway, I went on to that call, I led that call, I took it, we got the project over the line, signed off and then continued to be actively involved in it, and then, as soon as that, all so I was just going to say like you kind of downplayed that a little bit, because I threw ali into the deep end.
Craig Black:As you guessed, there sounds like it yeah totally and but she absolutely took it by storm. I mean, like that call, she led it, she. She got that project over the line within a week and at that time it was the highest paid project that we had.
Ally Black:So I was like if this isn't a sign for you to come and help me, then I don't know what is so and I think it just made sense because I guess, in terms of your question about working with your spouse, it's the best decision we could have ever made, and for numerous reasons, but one of the main ones is I don't think Craig will ever find anyone that cares as much about the business as I do genuinely cares. It means as much to me, even when I wasn't involved in it. It meant so much for me to see Craig do well and to succeed. So everything we did had to be, you know, the best of our ability. Everything had to be perfect. You know the best of our ability. Everything had to be perfect. We don't want to make mistakes. We're very much on the same page and the same wavelength with that.
Ally Black:So it just made perfect sense for that person who came on to help Craig as his business was going to the next level. It just made sense for it to be me. That then, in turn, allowed us the flexibility as a family to travel together. So since that point, we now've our little girl's, now four. She was one at the time when we were in nashville, she's four now and we we travel together when we get opportunities, we all go because we are working together as a business, and then she's our little intern for now, um, and it's the best decision we could have ever made. It allows us to spend so much more time together.
Craig Black:Sorry to jump in, but we've. Our goal was always to create a lifestyle, a lifestyle for our family that works for us. It may not be for everyone, but it's what we've always wanted and we've managed to carve that path, so in a way, we'll let. This is us living our dream, creating that lifestyle. Sounds like it? Yeah, totally. And and also another thing as well why it works so well between us because I'm the creative and Ali's non-creative, so I don't get Ali coming over the shore going why did you use that blue or why did you do that? So that helps, but sometimes you do it.
Ally Black:Sometimes I do that, and then it's like stay in your lane. Sometimes you do that, sometimes I do that, sometimes you do that, stay in your lane, and I do, and I'm happy dealing with all the business side of life.
Ally Black:The part that Craig didn't love before because it just took him away from the creative side. He was so bogged down and spent probably about 80% of his time on a computer at one point. Now I take that all away from him and that allows him the ability to be more creative and it just works. So you channel your inner Mr Murray. Exactly that, exactly that yeah, I keep him in line.
Andy Heise:Yeah, so many artists make their income and revenue from selling commissions or individual pieces of art that they create, but you've worked with a lot of brands on some pretty unique projects. What revenue streams have been most effective for you in your business?
Craig Black:So it's probably worth noting that I feel that I kind of flipped the business model of what an artist could do at the very beginning. So when I started the business I purposely went for the brands, partly because I know that world, I know it from the design, I know what impact art can do on these brands. So and the connections and the network that I've built over the years has kind of led to that. So the first client we could have got right away was UEFA, which is a massive global footballing brand of the self-initiated project. And then, for continuing on now, it's been a consistent role of brand collaborations in different areas sport, football. Sport plays a big part in that, purely because of my love for sport and football. But it's now morphing into different areas luxury, fashion, automobile, all those kind of things. But in in honesty, when I first started as an artist, I didn't have an in in the fine art world or all those kind of things. That's why the brands felt like the right place to go and I think that it just exploded for us by then. And from a business point of view it's a fantastic place to be, isn't it? Definitely because there's so many brands out there and I think I always encourage artists to look at other revenues, ie brand collaborations kind of thing, because there's not there is quite a few, but there's not a lot of artists doing it or pushing it heavily, but because of the brand recognition that we've received by global collaboration with some of the top brands has led opening the doors to the fine art world.
Craig Black:So now we've had um galleries in what sydney? Yep, um got an hour in new york coming up, which is amazing, I think. So it's opened up those doors because I've built a brand ourselves, right as well, right, and we are pivoting into different areas. So we're actually launching a homeware brand which is really, really, this is, it's kind of like came out very recently. So we've just moved into our new, our dream house. We've moved into it, we're loving it and me being the creative like, we bought this furniture and I thought I could enhance that furniture by applying acrylic fusion to it. So I did one thing and I did another, and then people were coming in the house going that's unbelievable, I would love that in my house. And then that was that light bulb moment. So me and Ali discussed about could this be something here? And then it's quickly morphed, hasn't it?
Ally Black:Yeah, I guess a big part craig's creation process is about having functional art pieces, so that art pieces but they're art pieces that don't just sit in in a corner somewhere they can actually be usable art pieces. So it's always been something in the back of his mind that he's wanted to really double down on. And, as craig said, as soon as he started doing these little touches on our house, people are coming over and commenting on all these things, actually messaging us on social media saying are you selling? Are you selling door numbers? Now? Because he painted our door number and he got it laser cut in wood and then he hand painted it and he's put it on the door. It looks incredible, it really does look so good. People are messaging us saying can I buy one of those?
Ally Black:so it kind of did, sort of push us into action, to sort of launch that, which is what we're in the process of doing now.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, yeah, I saw that joy chair online yeah, that's pretty fascinating. I imagine that was would have been tricky because the narrow wood it's always tricky.
Craig Black:Um well, you find a way. You find a way. This is what I love about my technique is we get these. Every project, whatever it is, there's a new challenge and it's not a simpler case of just throwing paint on it and that's it. There's so much complexity to it, but I love that. I love that challenge and it keeps me on my toes. I need to constantly evolve and that's just part of the process. And also, being the entrepreneurial minded, I love getting into this homeware range.
Craig Black:We've never been there before, but we're in there now and we're like, oh, this is awesome and we're figuring it out and we're getting responses and we're going right, this is a viable thing. Now, let's go here. This is a viable thing. Now, let's go here. Yeah, it's been interesting. You can be anywhere, exactly, exactly. We've got great aspirations for it. We've got an online shop as well, where we sell our own artwork from, which is doing extremely well. So we're making sure there's not just one area of revenue coming in. We're making sure we're going across as many as possible that we can handle as well. That's another thing like sometimes you can spread yourself too thin and that becomes counterintuitive and, yeah, kind of affects the business. So we're making sure, like if we're doing this, we need to be focused on each area and fortunately it works for us that way.
Andy Heise:Yeah well, and I love that you started with um working with brands, for, exactly like you said, that's the world that you lived in. You're used to doing that type of thing and it's almost like those collaborations were like services that you were providing to those brands rather than art pieces. You know what I mean Through that brand collaboration. Yeah, Definitely.
Craig Black:And you just reminded me of something there that from that design world to now the art world. So previously I used to have to go to these brands and present to them Right Versus concept Like, please, like, please, love this. Da, da, da, da da. I would love to do this. But now the brands come to us and go Craig and Ali, can we fly you down to London and whisk you away? And we want to present to you. We would love if you could work on our club.
Nick Petrella:They're like oh my god, yeah, that's exactly what I was going to ask you. So they're coming to you. So what percentage of your work is coming from brands actually going to you, to the brands that maybe you or Ali are seeking?
Ally Black:I was going to say 50-50.
Craig Black:Yeah, I would say so, I think, because you put a huge amount of effort into the brand collaborations with everyone that we've worked with. When brands come to us, they know the recipe, they know they're going to get a return on investment, they know they're going to get this beautiful product of some way or form. But the marketing campaign, the social media also on top of that is what we're doing now is well more in the past four years. It's a live art performance. So a lot of brands I do this, I personally. This is one of the highlights of what I get to do now and it all. It's just basically going to an event or a product launch or whatever it would be, and I would do that work live in front of an audience and, honestly, it first started off in front of Ali. One person, two, three, four, five. Now it's up to 500, thousands of people now watching me paint on a sphere and stuff like that, because they're all engaged and, from a brand perspective, say that's whether that product would be and I'm painting on it. It elevates them so much so it's like we're creating almost like a package for the brands. It's not just here's an expanded product. There's so many different elements to it and because of that is open up all these amazing opportunities. But at the same time, we have we have aspirations to work with certain brands or certain opportunities and we're very much, very we're very proactive in making that happen, reaching out to people in these brands, whoever they be, whether it's linkedin or via email.
Craig Black:We have a concept that we think could work with your products or this launch. This could be a range of acrylic fusion, something, something, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and it's sometimes a hit or miss, but that's the aim of the game, like we always think, if we at least we tried, if we don't put yourself out there and put yourself in an uncomfortable position and going, is this something that you like? But sometimes what we found sorry, I'm rubbing on here, but Like, if we don't put yourself out there and put yourself in an uncomfortable position and going, is this something that you like? But sometimes what we've found sorry, I'm wrapping on here, no, no, go ahead. Sometimes we've like made a pitch two or three years ago and then we'll get a phone call, like I said, like right now and going oh, remember that presentation you sent like two years ago, can we do it now. I'm like like hell, yeah, yeah, we can do it now. Um so, but we're very proactive in that element, aren't we?
Ally Black:yeah, absolutely, and I think, going back to the fact that no one else that we know of is doing the art that craig's doing, and the meaning behind it is really connecting different worlds through art. So it's painting on our racing helmet and connecting to the world of motorsports, or, you know, get into the homeware range. Brands are coming to us now because they see his previous work and how that connects brands to their customers. They see it and then they want to get involved with it too. So, yeah, to answer that question, a lot of them come to us because we share it proactively on linkedin and Instagram. We get a lot of work through that where people see it there, and then they reach out to us because they want to do something similar.
Ally Black:And then, likewise, craig always has been, and this is how it all started with the self-initiated football project. If there's something he wants to work in, for example, golf was a recent one. Craig wanted to work in the world of golf, so he'd done a self-initiated off his own back project where he painted golf clubs and golf balls, and then a couple of months later, he was collaborating with a golf brand in Dubai. So it's all very, you know, we, we look at brands we want to work with and kind of try and hand pick those ones um, find ways to make a connection there and make that work. And also they come to us off the back of you need a pop-up shop at St Andrews yes, I definitely do thanks for listening.
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