Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#329: Lynette Shy (Arts Marketing; Founder of Confluence Arts Solutions) (pt. 1 of 2)
This week on the podcast is part one of our interview with Lynette Shy. She’s an arts marketer and the founder of Confluence Arts Solutions, a company that helps small to mid-sized arts organizations increase revenue and improve organizational effectiveness.
Prior to founding CAS, she served as the Marketing Director at BalletMet where she helped earn four Emmy Awards, secure 20 times more media coverage and boost revenue for The Nutcracker by 54% in just 4 years.
Plan to join us to hear Lynette’s tips for growing your arts brand! https://confluence-arts.com/
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making art work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise.
Nick Petrella:And I'm Nick Petrella. Lynette Shy is on the podcast today. She's an arts marketer and the founder of Confluence Arts Solutions, a company that helps small to midsize arts organizations increase revenue and improve organizational effectiveness. Prior to founding CAS, she served as the marketing director at Ballet Met, where she helped earn four Emmy Awards, secure 20 times more media coverage and boost revenue for the Nutcracker by 54% in just four years. We'll link to Confluence Arts Solutions' website in the show notes so you can learn more about what Lynette does and see the brands she's helped over the years. Thanks for being on the podcast, lynette.
Lynette Shy:I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Nick Petrella:Let's begin by having you tell us how you got started in arts marketing.
Lynette Shy:It was very roundabout. I've always been an arts lover. I am a tap dancer, so I started dancing when I was five and I started my own non-profit arts group in 2003,. And I actually ended up working at Ballet Met in their marketing department, and so I've kind of seen like every aspect of at least performing arts.
Lynette Shy:And the pandemic hit and I was actually. I got my dream job right before the pandemic hit. I got hired at Capacity Interactive in New York City and I was going to be doing like marketing across the United States for all these awesome arts organizations and my first day was March 9th, 2020. And then, of course, you know, a couple of days later, the whole world shut down and I actually ended up back at BalletMet and helped them kind of through the pandemic, actually ended up back at BalletMet and helped them kind of through the pandemic. And then I decided I was disheartened by the arts and kind of burnout and so I got my real estate license. Hated it, hated real estate. And then one of my friends reached out and was like hey, we really need help, we're in trouble, I don't know what to do, and that was how it started. It just kind of snowballed from there. I started helping them out and I realized, oh yeah, this is where I'm supposed to be. I really love it. And here we are.
Lynette Shy:So that was three years ago, four years ago, and we're up and going and helping all kinds of arts things, just like I wanted to do, and so it's really fun.
Nick Petrella:And your friend was in the arts, I'm assuming.
Lynette Shy:Yeah, she was the executive director at an art center and so she reached out and asked for help because they were struggling coming back from COVID.
Andy Heise:Yeah, and just for some context. Where are you located?
Lynette Shy:I'm in Columbus, Ohio. I do have a team, another team member, two other team members are here in Columbus, and then I have a team member in Buffalo, New York.
Andy Heise:Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. So your friend called you and said I think you can help us. And you said yeah, sure, let's give it a try. Through that process you said, hey, I bet there's other arts organizations. All right, you knew there were other arts organizations out there that needed the type of help that you were providing your friends organization. And so you whatever? Hung your shingle up and said here we are here we are.
Lynette Shy:Yeah, we, it was a little. There is a lot of help out there for arts organizations, but most of them are large and so when you're a small arts organization, you don't have the resources to do what a lot of the large arts organizations have resources for. So it's a different style of marketing and that's like that's the niche we fill.
Nick Petrella:So yeah, great, and we're going to unpack that a little bit later. Absolutely yeah.
Andy Heise:And so, through your work with all these different organizations that you've worked with, are there any patterns or commonalities that you've noticed about the challenges that arts organizations face today?
Lynette Shy:Yeah, no money, no time.
Andy Heise:That's pretty much it.
Lynette Shy:Yeah right, We've never guessed that just overwhelmed, you know, overworked, overwhelmed, doing it for passion, which then leads to burnout, which then leads to someone new coming in, and then they have to take the time to learn how to do it, and then you kind of get stuck in this like cycle of, you know, burnout and doing it the same way you've always done it, because there isn't someone there long enough to like reset, regroup and analyze. And so that's kind of where we come in is to try and help stop the, the chaos and the churn.
Andy Heise:We call it the churn, but yeah, and so so the burnout comes from? Uh, they said this comes from a place of passion. They're passionate about what they're doing, so they work whatever long hours they uh put all they have into it. They can't really outsource or delegate cause there's nobody at the organization, nobody else there to do it. So they do it, and so is that. That's sort of the the, the cycle that you're talking about Yep.
Lynette Shy:That's the cycle.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, yeah. So you keep the, the momentum and the consistency, which I think is really important for whatever business you're in.
Lynette Shy:Yeah, a lot of it is prioritizing too, so they have stuff. A lot of arts organizations. When we go in they have stuff. They've just always done that way and they don't check to make sure it's still working, and so that's a lot of times it's not working Like. Stop wasting your time doing something like that if it's not being effective, because time is so vital to the organization and to allow it to thrive. You can only focus on what actually is going to move the needle and actually help you complete your mission.
Nick Petrella:I would bet someone in your position would be able to see things clearly that maybe someone in the business might not be able to see, so you could have a more objective look, would you say? That's accurate.
Lynette Shy:I would say that's accurate. We kind of also know what to go in and look for, because it is a widespread issue that is happening. So we go in and look and a lot of times we already know within a half an hour of talking to you hey, we could probably eliminate this. We need to switch this to here and you know, kind of help you re allocate funds and time, yeah.
Andy Heise:And so what kind of what kind of organizations do you work with? Are they all performing arts? Are they visual arts? Are they art support organizations? Can you give us an idea of that?
Lynette Shy:It's all of it. So, um anything that is arts or cultural related. We we work with um. A lot of times we the majority of our clients are performing arts, um, because there's a ticketing component to that.
Lynette Shy:Um and so we talk about venue scaling and like how to price tickets appropriately, and so a lot of times that's where people come in to kind of get help with that. So we do tend to work with performing arts a little bit more than the other, but we absolutely work with art centers and galleries, and you know all of the individual artists too.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, Sure, sure. Well, that's a nice segue into the next question, which is what's the difference between arts marketing and just regular marketing?
Lynette Shy:I would say it kind of goes back to what we talked about earlier, that there are not enough resources, that there is not enough time and money, and so what we've seen is other marketing agencies, and a lot of times it comes from the board and the board is so supportive and that is amazing, um, but they're used to working at like victoria's secret or like all these huge corporations, and they have millions and millions of dollars to work with.
Lynette Shy:um, and we're talking like our organizations might have 50 to work with or 500 or 2500, and so the way you spend money is way different when you only have twenty five hundred, um like if you buy a radio ad and you're like it's only fifteen hundred dollars a month, you know, for this radio ad, that sounds great and that is actually a really great deal. And so someone from like I would say like non-arts marketing, would look at that and be like that's a great, great price price for me.
Lynette Shy:I'd be like absolutely not. No, we're not going to do that. You need to move your money into digital marketing first, because we can see what's working. We can make an adjustments in the you know in real time and get way more out of that $1,500. So that would be. My biggest thing is just and it comes from a place of not working in the industry itself and I think that's one of our advantages is because everybody that works for me has been an artist and worked in arts admin at some point, uh, cause we think it's super important that you recognize what people are dealing with.
Lynette Shy:Yeah, so you're, you're differentiator, then is the amount of spend that they have a lot of it a lot of it is amount of spend and and people, right, they'll be like well, just send it to your graphic designer. We don't have a graphic designer. I'm the graphic designer. I'm the graphic designer, I'm the social media manager, I'm like all the things um and so again it's prioritizing what works, yeah gotcha.
Nick Petrella:so there's no difference in how you position or branding or anything from marketing. It's just okay, Gotcha.
Lynette Shy:No, yeah, it's definitely like how the money is spent, probably Okay.
Andy Heise:Great, and so picking up on on again, continuing this conversation a little further beyond great marketing, of course, what are some key internal organizational factors that are necessary for arts organizations to be able to do what it is they want to do?
Lynette Shy:Structure. I would say structure, and I don't necessarily mean like the building structure, I mean like task structure, a flow, a workflow. Even if it's just you, you have too many deadlines that you're juggling, um, probably, and so you need to have everything that you can um lay out ahead of time, laid out, because the fires are going to pop up, the toilets are going to break, you're going to be plunging in the bathroom in the middle of a show, like I cannot tell you how many clients that has happened to um, more than three um, and so you have to have like the social media and stuff which feels overwhelming to a lot of people. You can lay a lot of that out ahead of time and if you're organized, then when the toilet does overflow, um, the social media post still goes um, and so it's. It's that, I think. Think organizational structure from a task management, yeah.
Andy Heise:So so, systems, processes, standard operating procedures, things that, things that allow the business to continue working without you having to be the one steering it, doing it, driving it.
Lynette Shy:Absolutely. Yeah, it's going to be cheaper in the long run too, for for them it is the hardest part is getting started. It's overwhelming. It feels overwhelming when I'm like when we tell people hey, you need to start marketing, like your shows and your events. You know, six months out and start advertising eight weeks out. They look at me like a deer in the headlights, like it feels like impossible.
Lynette Shy:And it does feel like that in the beginning, and we do get to a point where it's like, oh, wait a second, I can breathe. Now I'm not as overwhelmed, um, but it's not always easy to get to that point. So sure?
Andy Heise:Yeah, well, and when you're so, when you're, when you're underwater on a daily basis, on an hourly, by-the-minute basis, there's always still things that you should have done yesterday or the day before. How can you begin to imagine a world where you're eight weeks out?
Announcer:Right.
Nick Petrella:Yeah yeah, I like the plumbing reference too, andy Underwater.
Lynette Shy:There you go, you got it.
Nick Petrella:Like you keep and you know what, here this one's for free, Lynette.
Lynette Shy:I was looking at all your packages. You could have a marketing and plumbing package on your website so you could have an on-call plumber. I should do that. My son does work for a plumber there, you go.
Announcer:Yes.
Andy Heise:Yeah, family business, there we go, that's right. You know, it's funny, I was just talking with someone recently and they're planning a conference this fall, but this person used to work in the fashion industry and they told me the fashion industry works two years in advance, so they're already thinking about 2026. And I was like, oh my God, we need more of you, yeah, right. And I was like that's awesome, Because I'm usually one of your clients who's like, you know, just like what am I going to post about tomorrow?
Nick Petrella:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Lynette Shy:Or today.
Nick Petrella:Or today. Yeah, what should I have posted last night? Yeah, you're not in trend spotting or forecasting, you're like reacting Exactly. Yeah.
Lynette Shy:That's what we call it. We actually have a whole program called you know, going from reactive marketing to proactive marketing, because it is like super important yeah.
Andy Heise:That's so cool, yeah, yeah.
Nick Petrella:So, lynette, how can artists or arts organizations stand out in the social media age?
Lynette Shy:I think it's right now, and you both know that social media shifts constantly, but right now it's behind the scenes. So I think that a lot of people feel like they have to have really, really curated content, and they don't.
Lynette Shy:So, it is 100% okay to film on your phone backstage or as you're hanging paintings in the gallery or as you're doing things, and then just posting it as is. You do not have to spend a whole bunch of time doing all the editing. People actually seem to enjoy that less curated content and more like grit, if you will, so I would say that.
Nick Petrella:Got a quick follow-up question. One of the things that always comes up when I'm talking with marketing people is the frequency. What's the frequency for effective posting? Every day, every hour, once a week? What do you think?
Lynette Shy:Well, I think a regular agency would tell you every day we're going to tell you whatever you can do consistently. If you cannot post every day consistently, then that should not be your timing. If you can consistently consistently post two or three times a week, then that's what you work off of and maybe eventually, once you start getting six months out and kind of have some of this stuff, maybe then you can increase the amount that you're posting. But our thing is just make sure you're posting consistently, yeah.
Andy Heise:And so part of the systems and processes is you have to think ahead. Well, what are we going to be doing, whatever this week, next week, and what could we capture in that process that could then become a social media post, because it seems like so much of that happens in the moment. It's like, oh, I should stop what I'm doing and get my phone. I don't have time for that because we're already late and behind.
Lynette Shy:Yeah, yeah, we do a whole if, ideally, like you, would know what your season is at least 18 months in advance. Right, like you would have all of that. So, as you're going through the current one, you recognize oh, I need an audience shot. Oh, I need this shot. Oh, I can use this for next year. Oh, I'm going to set up a photo shoot and a video shoot on a single day and get all the content that I need ahead of time to start consistently posting some of these things and then, as the stuff pops up, that's the stuff that you fill in with.
Andy Heise:Right, right you need an audience shot in your in-between seasons You're like where are the? Where could I possibly find an audience? That's impossible.
Lynette Shy:Exactly, exactly yeah.
Nick Petrella:I should do the Nutcracker closeups in July, just to save some time, oh man.
Andy Heise:So when you think about the future, what big shifts or trends do you see shaping the arts sector and arts organizations over the next few years?
Lynette Shy:Well, people are spending less money to spend. So our suggestion is think through what that would look like. Have the conversation with your board, have the conversation with whatever staff you have and kind of think through okay, if we're actually going to bring in less money this year than we would in years past, how can we allocate that? How can we think through things differently? Is there a way for us to cut costs? I would say that is the largest thing right now.
Lynette Shy:We didn't fully recover from COVID and now we're getting like we're getting hit again, and so I say, like, if you knew COVID was coming, what would you have done? And if you knew there was another interruption coming, how would you handle that? So that's, I think, the biggest thing. That, and as unfortunate, like I don't like to tell people that, it makes me sad that I have to tell people like, hey, you need to plan for less money when they're already working with so little. Um, but it's also, I mean, creative people are the innovators in the world and so, like, this is a chance to innovate, try something new, do some new. You know things. Um, think through different ways to get revenue, um. So that's the big one, and then the other one is is just you know, keep working towards your mission, like, remember your mission is your center and use that you know for what you're doing. If it's not, if you're thinking about doing something and it doesn't tie into your mission, then evaluate it.
Andy Heise:Yeah, yeah, I would imagine we've been interviewing some folks about grants and that sort of thing over the last month or so. I could imagine sort of I don't want to call it desperation, but mission creep, maybe just to seek out some additional funding that maybe doesn't totally align. Yeah, it's like, well, there's some money out there. If I do this, it's not really. Do you see that?
Lynette Shy:happening. We haven't seen it yet. We've seen it. I mean, I think we're going to probably see some of that, Um, but we have. We haven't seen it yet. We're still in the early stages of all the shifts.
Andy Heise:Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out where it's going to land or whatever.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out where it's going to land or whatever.
Andy Heise:Yeah, it's going to land, whatever.
Nick Petrella:What are some effective strategies you've employed to grow audiences for arts organizations? You had mentioned different revenue streams, so I'm curious about that.
Lynette Shy:The biggest one is make sure, making sure that you're maximizing the revenue opportunities that you have already and that I the number one thing that we do when we go into places is switch them to digital advertising. If they are not doing digital advertising and they're still doing newspapers and they're still doing radio and they're still doing some of the old, older traditional media, which a lot of them still are. I think there's this like thought of like, oh my gosh, I have to be here and I have to be there, and I have to be here and here and here, and then you've spent all your money on an ad that comes out for one day and I would much rather see you spend that money digitally, where we can push it out in different places and still reach the people. So I don't know if I answered your question.
Nick Petrella:No, you did, and then you know. As far as digitally, it's just amazing to see the transition. Just I don't know, even since COVID digital programs, I mean think about how much money that saves for an organization.
Andy Heise:Yeah, yeah, audiences. You know again, you mentioned this before but you know organizations tend to do the same things that they've always done previously, which has maybe worked in the past. But if you're looking to expand your audience or grow your audience, you're going to have to look for new ways of reaching a different person.
Lynette Shy:Absolutely, and like taking the time to identify your strategy. Even if that is just, you know, a one page document that you're talking about, like here's where we want to go. Even if you don't have a full strategic plan yet or sustainability plan, there is still the opportunity for you to just be like well, who would that be? We want a younger audience. We want, you know, a different audience, a more diverse audience, like all the different things that you can do and then put yourself in their shoes. What would make them, you know how, would we be a match? What isn't it for them because I think that happens a lot too in arts is like we get so immersed in the art form and it's for everybody.
Lynette Shy:But it's but it's not. You know, like I, when I worked for the ballet company, used to say, ballet is not for everybody, but I want to make sure that everybody that ballet is for knows that this is happening. And, like you're, a lot of people are like help me find my audience. Who's my audience? Well, put out your content and your information and your mission and you will find your audience. You just have to like consistently be doing that to make sure that your audience knows about you. So, yeah, that's good.
Lynette Shy:I still don't know if I answered that question.
Andy Heise:No, that's exactly right. Yeah, and I you know doing to your point, though, also like doing something once and you say, oh, that didn't work.
Nick Petrella:Well, yeah, no, and you may not know why. Maybe it was the timing, maybe it was where you did it Right. So, yeah, was the timing. Maybe it was where you did it Right.
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