Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#330: Lynette Shy (Arts Marketing; Founder of Confluence Arts Solutions) (pt. 2 of 2)
This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with Lynette Shy. She’s an arts marketer and the founder of Confluence Arts Solutions, a company that helps small to mid-sized arts organizations increase revenue and improve organizational effectiveness.
Prior to founding CAS, she served as the Marketing Director at BalletMet where she helped earn four Emmy Awards, secure 20 times more media coverage and boost revenue for The Nutcracker by 54% in just 4 years.
Plan to join us to hear Lynette’s tips for growing your arts brand! https://confluence-arts.com/
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making art work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise.
Nick Petrella:And I'm Nick Petrella. Lynette Shy is on the podcast today. She's an arts marketer and the founder of Confluence Arts Solutions, a company that helps small to midsize arts organizations increase revenue and improve organizational effectiveness. Prior to founding CAS, she served as the marketing director at Ballet Met, where she helped earn four Emmy Awards. She served as the marketing director at Ballet Met, where she helped earn four Emmy Awards, secure 20 times more media coverage and boost revenue for the Nutcracker by 54% in just four years. We'll link to Confluence Arts Solutions' website in the show notes so you can learn more about what Lynette does and see the brands she's helped over the years. Thanks for being on the podcast, lynette.
Lynette Shy:I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Andy Heise:So, similarly, there are lots of great arts organizations out there and a lot of them are competing for audiences' time, attention and, quite frankly, their money, their dollars. How do you help organizations navigate that sort of competitive landscape? I guess?
Lynette Shy:So my first thing is I say good art breeds more good art. So I will challenge people to say let's not look at it as a competition. Let's look at the arts ecosystem as a whole and how the arts ecosystem supports everybody. If you're in a community where art is important, everybody, if you're in a community where art is important, then art is important to your community and so then they will support multiple organizations. That being said, I know that that is idealistic to a certain extent.
Lynette Shy:So the data shows a lot of times there's not a whole lot of crossover audience. So if you're looking at, you know studies about how many people go to multiple arts organizations and they would pick one over the other. That doesn't typically happen. Um, there is some crossover, but they usually look at them equally, um, and so ultimately I would say try not to worry about that. Try not to look at everybody as a competitor. If there's opportunities for you to collaborate with each other, absolutely do that. If there's opportunities for you to share each other's information, absolutely do that. If you're worried, bottom line, you're going to be worried anyway. It's not because arts organization B is taking away arts organization A's money. It's a bigger landscape, yeah.
Andy Heise:So it's not necessarily a zero-sum game, it's not transactional, it's more.
Lynette Shy:Yeah, what do they say Looking at something from a? What is it like a growth mindset instead of a scarcity mindset? Like yeah, so yeah, it's hard to do. It is hard to do.
Andy Heise:But well, and again, it's particularly if you're in the trenches, you know underwater trying to come up for air, yeah, and if you don't the trenches, you know underwater trying to come up for air and if you don't have much money or other resources kind of gives you that mindset and that's a segue into the next question here.
Nick Petrella:Now this is a hypothetical question and you can certainly answer by it depends, but I'd prefer if you didn't so broad question but I'd prefer if you didn't so broad question. Say, there's an artist who's busy making their art and they only have a few hundred dollars to spend on marketing. Where would you tell him to spend those initial marketing dollars?
Lynette Shy:Meta.
Nick Petrella:Yep Meta.
Lynette Shy:So I would run an ad, don't boost. Run an ad on meta. There's a bunch of really great youtube tutorials on how to run a meta ad. Um. I would do that first um. That's how I tier. It is meta first um, even though sometimes meta is meta um, but they still have the audience.
Lynette Shy:So meta would be facebook and instagram. If people aren't aware, um, so it would be facebook, facebook and instagram. If you're a 501c3, I would definitely get a Google grant, um, and then, if you haven't heard of a Google grant, google grant is a program that Google has it's $10,000 a month in free Google advertising. Um, so I would do that, and then um paid Google after that, and then Spotify or some other type of streaming audio. That's how I spend. That's how I break down a spend.
Nick Petrella:Okay, so you do a lot of video.
Lynette Shy:then, when you're doing, it doesn't necessarily have to be, oh, you mean like Spotify or something like that.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, I was just curious. Like video to audio because I know video seems stickier. It's more engaging.
Lynette Shy:It is. We say it's nice to have a mix of video and carousels and all the things, because what worked today might not work tomorrow, and so if you're already planning, because we're planning far out now, remember so if we're planning far out, we're going to plan for a mix of all these different types of content, so we have the ability to reach people in all these different ways. And Meta has the. Sorry, I'm going to get excited.
Lynette Shy:But Meta has the opportunity. They have an AI like a dynamic tool, where you can put all of that into an ad and it automatically serves what it feels is the best content for that person viewing the ad. So it makes it really simple you know, to kind of put that in like that I guess it depends on the medium too.
Nick Petrella:I was, in my mind, answering the question as I asked it, you were answering it. So I mean, if you're a dance ensemble, sure video would be great.
Lynette Shy:Audio might not be right, whereas if you're a jazz band or something, yeah, or you're saying you know, I think that there's an opportunity to use both for everything. I a video might be great, but it also might be great of a dancer talking about why the choreography inspired that piece or what they feel when they're dancing it. So there's just. There's so many different ways to create content. That's not super hard. I mean, that's, relatively speaking, right. Sure, yeah, yeah.
Andy Heise:Yeah Well, and I'm thinking like you mentioned Spotify, like so those would be things that run either between songs or during a podcast or something like that, absolutely, and those are going to have to be a little more not polished, but certainly like has to fit within a 30 second timeframe and you're trying to get your message out and it's going to be focused on some sort of whatever call to action that you're wanting, right?
Lynette Shy:Typically like again, there's a it depends, right, it depends Spotify. You can actually give them a script and they will record it for you and like you don't have to do any of the work for it um they do have a 250 minimum spend. So if you only have 50, the spotify is not going to work for you.
Andy Heise:So but yeah what I'm also thinking, you know I've been. It seems like I've been seeing more local ads on my my tv streaming platforms, whatever that is not the big ones, you know, not like max and netflix, but hulu certainly, maybe more local and that sort of thing. Are those becoming more accessible?
Lynette Shy:yeah, that's called ott or over the top um streaming ads, some of those um we typically that would be below spotify for us um, but that would be the realm of it. Meta Meta you know, all like the whole way down. And then OTT Um, again, it's a digital way to like identify who you want it to add, to show to, instead of just buying regular TV spots. Um, so that's our yeah.
Andy Heise:Yeah, I definitely feel targeted when I see it. Some of those ads.
Lynette Shy:Yes, yeah, you are, you are being.
Andy Heise:They're watching you.
Nick Petrella:I know they are. They're following you, Andy.
Andy Heise:They're going to be very bored, and so, ultimately, hopefully, these marketing activities that we're talking about translate into revenue of some sort or support in some way, but that's not always a linear path. So how do you help organizations bridge that gap between marketing activities and earning revenue or garnering support, whatever that looks like?
Lynette Shy:It's all connected. So I know you're saying, like, how do you connect it? And I like to say, like, marketing is literally in every aspect of your organization. So a lot of times people will look at marketing as advertising, but it is so much more than that, because marketing is the story that you're telling to everyone. It is your website, is your storefront, and that's marketing. Your. You know, I get so sorry. I get really excited about it and then I don't know how to get all the words out.
Lynette Shy:But, I think it's that Make sure that marketing is in some of these conversations because they really can help an organization bridge the gap, even if it's development and fundraising Some of the marketing efforts that go out in the months before you do an ask for development to kind of start reiterating some of the messaging that might come through from a development standpoint. To fundraise better Again, because we're planning further out. We know a development campaign is coming up. We know the development campaign is going to focus on kids and you know, in classrooms doing art. So for the next two months before that we're showing kids in classrooms doing art. So when the ask comes they've already been somewhat familiarized with that and they've already had that emotional pull to it and then they're going to be more likely to understand what you're talking about and have a reference when you're asking for a financial contribution.
Nick Petrella:So again, it's all tied together. Yeah, it's a sales technique.
Andy Heise:It's anchoring you already have that in their mind.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Previous question I asked was about paid and owned media, but I'm wondering to what degree you think artists should be promoting earned media. I think it depends. I know you hate that answer.
Lynette Shy:It depends, but I think it depends. I know you hate that answer. It depends, but I think it does depend on, again, how much time you have and how much you think it's going to help you.
Lynette Shy:I don't know if that's a good way to say it. But so let's say, a lot of times people will create a press release and just kind of send it to everybody and hope that they're going to get some media coverage out of it. And hope that they're going to get some media coverage out of it, right? I'm saying like, if you know reporter a loves your artwork, absolutely pitch to reporter a. Um, but do not pitch to reporter a a blanket press release and check it off your you know list that it's going to get done because she got a press release. I would say reach out to reporter a and say, hey, I'm working on this project and I would love to give you exclusive coverage. Do you think that you would be interested in collaborating in this? And? And that is how you get the the earned media Like it's, it's not something that I would just put out there and hope that somebody picks it up.
Lynette Shy:It's kind of to me. It's kind of like and you know how we talked about newspaper ads and how like they go out once on one day and that's it. That's what your press release is. If it's going out generically, it is a one shot and if they don't pick it up, then you know you're out of luck.
Nick Petrella:So so you have a hunting approach to it, not a fishing approach.
Lynette Shy:Absolutely.
Nick Petrella:You're going to go find someone these X amount of people, I think they can help. You're going to increase the odds of success that way. I like that.
Lynette Shy:And it would also be how high on my priority list is that it depends on what my strategy or what my goals for an organization are. If my goals are to have more media coverage, then absolutely that's a higher priority. If it's not necessarily and it's going to take five hours out of my day and a whole lot of work to get there and that means that something else is going to drop off, Then it might not be the priority for that time. So it all comes back to that.
Andy Heise:Yeah, well, to be able to, you know, you have to have the relationships with those reporters or whatever, influencers or whatever you know. Is there? Maybe this is a rabbit hole not worth going down, but is? Is there a way to start building those relationships? Or how do you? How do you do that?
Lynette Shy:Absolutely. I think that here in Columbus we have it's Columbus arts marketing association. I don't know if a lot of towns have that, but it is all the arts marketers in town. We get together every other month and one of the sessions that we have is with our local media, and so they come in, they tell us what they're interested in and how to pitch to them specifically and how to pitch to them specifically, and that, honestly, has been such a great resource, for a lot of our local arts organizations is doing something like that.
Lynette Shy:I think another way is watching the news and influencers and what type of stuff they're covering and see if there is you know, if there is a reporter that likes soccer and you know they're always at the soccer games and you run a soccer team, you call the reporter that you know like soccer. Same thing if there's one that likes ballet they're covering dance or they're covering yeah, you know. It's that like identifying targeting, if you will. Like you're, it's the same thing. Yeah, the most likely to convert. That sounds very cold and that's not what I mean, but well no that's, and build a relationship with Like it's the same thing.
Lynette Shy:Yeah, the most likely to convert. That sounds very cold and that's not what I mean.
Nick Petrella:But Well, no, that's.
Lynette Shy:And build a relationship with them.
Andy Heise:Yeah, yeah, and so you have to spend some time to be aware of who are the people playing the game and what game are they playing, and that sort of thing, yeah.
Lynette Shy:I would go through your files too. Is there anybody in your database that already is coming and maybe you don't even realize they're? They're you know consuming your art, or they already follow you on social, you know? Is there that?
Nick Petrella:Just got a quick follow-up question Cause we're we're in just about a hundred countries now. We have streams and so people can understand how, how many people and organizations are in that arts marketing organization. So when you say you have that meeting, who shows up there and and?
Lynette Shy:we have about, I believe it's, 130 artists and arts organizations from central ohio, in that it's a mix of large arts organizations, medium, small and individual artists, and then our meetings are usually in that 30 to 40 range of people. The media one is the most popular one, so we usually have a lot of people at that meeting, a lot of people at that meeting.
Nick Petrella:Do you have data that shows the effectiveness of those meetings and how art's promoted?
Lynette Shy:I don't. I don't have any data.
Nick Petrella:That would be interesting.
Lynette Shy:It would be interesting. So it's a volunteer run. Cama is its own nonprofit and so everybody that runs it is associated with the arts in some way, shape or form. So they don't have any staff, so it's very much like a grassroots effort. So there isn't any data that I'm aware of.
Nick Petrella:Okay.
Andy Heise:Interesting idea though.
Lynette Shy:Yeah, it's been around for a long time. It started in the 90s. Did you use an acronym, cama, though? Yeah, it's been around for a long time. It started in the 90s.
Andy Heise:Did you use an acronym?
Lynette Shy:CAMA yeah.
Andy Heise:Columbus Arts.
Lynette Shy:Marketing Association.
Andy Heise:Got it.
Nick Petrella:Two great ideas. We got that one and the plumbing idea. Don't forget that.
Lynette Shy:There you go.
Andy Heise:I won't forget the plumbing there you go, I won't forget the plumbing. So, lynette, after years of helping artists and organizations behind the scenes, what keeps you passionate about the work that you do?
Lynette Shy:I believe that art changes the world. I truly, truly believe that. I believe that it's beautiful, it enhances things, it gives people different perspectives, it encourages empathy and humanity and it's feeling that I get when I see art is. It takes me back to like my childhood and that wonder um, I just you know, when we came back from COVID my first show that I saw I cried the entire show because I missed it so much, because it's so building, yeah.
Nick Petrella:So, before we get to our final three questions, just wonder is there a common message or messaging that successful arts organizations you've worked with are implementing?
Lynette Shy:Mission yeah, it's mission. Going back to your mission. So if your mission is to create, create new works then why is that mission important? And talking about the mission and showing the mission and how all of that works is is going back to the mission, instead of trying to like reinvent the wheel every time, like, how does this thing relate back to what you're doing? It all relates back to the mission, um, and because that's what you're doing, that's why you're doing what you're doing. So that would be my biggest thing. Even though that sounds very generic, it's actually the most important thing.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, well, that's the core. I mean that's the trunk of the tree. Everything else, the activities that you may do, the whatever, the advertising just kind of shoots off of that. But you have to have that common thread.
Lynette Shy:I love that analogy. Yes, yeah.
Andy Heise:Well, I imagine you work with a lot of not-for-profits. You know that are mission-based organizations, but the same thing holds true for a for-profit, you know, individual artist or whatever right.
Lynette Shy:Absolutely, absolutely yeah.
Andy Heise:Why are they making art? Right? You could be working at Whole Foods or something, right? So why is it you're doing the thing, why are you choosing to go down this path? And you're saying that should come back to be the center of how you answer questions or how you make decisions. Yes, yeah, yeah, and don't forget that. It's easy to get caught up in that it is easy to get caught up when you're plunging a toilet.
Nick Petrella:When you're plunging a toilet.
Lynette Shy:In the middle of a show you're like why am? I doing this, you're plunging a toilet.
Andy Heise:Is Whole Foods tiring right now? Oh wait a second.
Lynette Shy:That's why I'm doing it yeah.
Andy Heise:Right? Well, lynette, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions, and the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an arts entrepreneur? And I guess you know I started before I even asked the question. You could take this from you. Know someone like yourself who wants to start a business supporting arts organizations? Or you advice that you would give to you know an artist who's starting to embark on their journey. However, you want to do it or both.
Lynette Shy:Or both. I would say, as an artist, let's go from an artist or an arts organization first. Absolutely, take the time to answer some questions about strategy and what you're trying to accomplish and why we are this, we are not that, we are this, we are not that. That type of thing. Um, my other biggest piece of advice is create a persona or an avatar for your, your art Um, not you, but your art, and how you want your art to be perceived by the community. Um, it is a lot easier to speak as your avatar and say would this avatar say this or would I say this? And you have to go back to the avatar. It takes a lot of the pressure off of individual people, so I think that's a great one. If you are thinking of starting an arts marketing business, my suggestion would be make sure you work as an arts admin in an arts organization or for an artist before you take this on, because it is very hard for them and so it's very important that you know where they're coming from.
Nick Petrella:That's good, my two cents Perfect. What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?
Lynette Shy:I actually think the arts do a really great job trying to be accessible. I think that's something that's prominent in almost everybody that we talk to, so I think that's great. I think this is a balancing act, because it's super important that we're accessible, that we can go through the regular stuff, like your website is accessible and all of Um. A lot of times, people are talking about being able to consume the arts, and I would say, um, a lot of libraries have programs where they can check out you can check out admission or check out a ticket to go um see art. I think that's a great way. A pay, what you can, is a great way. Um, and then my counter to that is balance, um, your bottom line. So make sure that you are, yes, being accessible and making sure that everybody has the opportunity to come, but also not cannibalizing uh the revenue, uh, cause, especially right now, um, it's both. Both are so important and, like it is definitely a balance between the two.
Andy Heise:Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've been given?
Lynette Shy:It doesn't get easier, it just changes, and I know that sounds. That sounds a little depressing, doesn't it? The only constant is change, and you just can't be afraid of it. So, like it's just, it's it's going to change. Um, something that was hard is going to get so much easier, and then there's going to be a new challenge in front of you that you're going to have to, you know, work with. And so it's just, it's a living, breathing creature, and so, um, you have to take care it, and it's going to grow up.
Nick Petrella:So yeah Well, thanks so much for coming on, Lynette. It was great hearing your practical approach to marketing for both artists and arts organizations. I think you gave our listeners a lot to think about.
Lynette Shy:Thanks for having me.
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