Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#336: Delita Martin (Multimedia Artist) (pt. 2 of 2)
This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with Delita Martin. She’s an acclaimed American multimedia artist, and the founder of Black Box Press Studio based in Huffman, Texas. She works in a variety of mediums including printmaking, painting and stitching.
Delita frequently incorporates symbolism, and many of her works contain West African masks which highlight the connection between the mortal and spiritual worlds. Her works are in the permanent collections of acclaimed venues such as the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Minneapolis Museum of Art, and Crystal Bridges. Join us to hear how her relationship approach to business helps grow her studio and lifts everyone with whom she collaborates. https://blackboxpressstudio.com/
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making art work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise.
Nick Petrella:And I'm Nick Petrella. We're excited to have Delita Martin with us today. She's an American multimedia artist and the founder of Black Box Press Studio, based in Huffman, texas. She works in a variety of mediums, including printmaking, painting and stitching. Delita frequently incorporates symbolism and many of her works contain West African masks which highlight the connection between the mortal and spiritual worlds. Her works are in the permanent collections of acclaimed venues such as the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Minneapolis Museum of Art and Crystal Bridges. Make sure to visit Delita's website to see her vivid art and learn more about her and the foundation she created to empower artists. Thanks for coming on the podcast, dalita.
Delita Martin:Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.
Andy Heise:So the arts can be a competitive field, are a competitive field, and visual arts especially. So how do you think about competition, either with other artists? How do you think about competition either with with it, with other artists? I know you probably it's not. You know it's not a zero sum game necessarily, but you know there's only so many galleries and there's only so many walls to hang art on, and so how do you, how do you think about competition in this industry? I don't.
Delita Martin:I don't. I think that that's a trap. You know, you get caught up in the competition you get caught up in let me change my work to fit into a space, and that's not what it's about for me. My art is very personal. It's a part of a story that I want to share, but it's still personal story, and so I don't. I find that I'm more successful when I don't concentrate on that. Don't get me wrong. I love paying bills, I'm partial to food and a roof over my head, but at the same time, what's for you, no one can take, so it doesn't matter.
Andy Heise:So focusing on your voice, your story and putting it out there, absolutely.
Delita Martin:And putting it out in the best way, in the most responsible way possible. So if I am over here policing you, I can't do the research that's needed, I can't improve my process the way I need to, I can't create the way I need to because I'm over here policing you.
Andy Heise:I can't do that and you can't control what other people do Absolutely not yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I I think it goes. It kind of comes back to like when you, when you may, took the leap, so to speak, about going full-time artist in the studio. You, you had the foresight to say I know that I'm going to have to spend some time on the business aspects of this.
Andy Heise:Because if I'm just in the studio making all day long. All you're doing is making all day like without, without thinking about well, what is the best way to get, to tell my story, to get my, to get my voice out into the world? How do I do that strategically and in a way that makes sense for you?
Delita Martin:Right, right, yeah, and I think it's important also that artists realize that you're not an island at all. You're going to have to pull in people to help you. You're going to have to surround yourself with a really good support system and a really good team. There's no way that I can possibly manage my career by myself. As I grow and as an artist continues to grow, you're going to have to pull in people to help you, for sure.
Nick Petrella:That's a good segue into my next question. In order to arrange this interview, I was in contact with your studio manager. Shout out to Kiara Amazing. I'm not aware of any arts degrees that addresses HR, so could you describe your hiring process and tell us if it's changed or how it's changed over the years?
Delita Martin:Yes, I feel like my hiring process is really evolving as I grow as an artist, because it's going to change, because your needs are going to change. So it was really hard. I did go through a few assistants in the beginning, and it's not because of them, it was totally me, because I didn't know what I wanted or what I needed. So I think that that's the first thing people should decide. If you're planning on taking someone in to your studio. It's like bringing someone home for good. You know you have to vet that person. You can't just bring anybody home and um, but you have to also be clear on what your expectations are and what your needs are. And so learning that was a process, but, um, you know, having a husband who works in human resources, and um, it was great, so he helped with the interview process.
Delita Martin:Um, he helped me to understand the questions that I needed to ask Um, cause it wasn't a. Oh, could you do this interview for?
Announcer:me. I don't know how to do this.
Delita Martin:He's like Nope, you have to do the interview because you're going to work with this person, you know, but I'll sit in, and so it was a double interview, you know, my husband and I. So yeah, it again, pull in someone. If you don't know, ask the questions.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, that's really good advice and then so you're in there together and his expertise is helpful.
Delita Martin:Yes, it is, because you know, I'm not, I don't have that business background, so I'm not quite sure what the expectation. I knew what I needed and what I wanted. But is that really beyond expectations, you know? But here's a guy that can say whoa, slow down, calm down, you're asking for way too much.
Delita Martin:You know, and that kind of thing. And then understanding, you know, doing the research in the industry. You know, and that kind of thing. And then, understanding, you know, doing the research in the industry, you know how much should I be paying this person, because you know I want to pay this person fairly, because you pay for what you get. You get what you pay for. And so just, you know, understanding that industry, calling friends who own galleries, calling friends who've had assistants, you know. You know I never would have thought to have an NDA in reference to my studio practice. I didn't know anything about that, but a friend was like you know you should do that. So whatever your trade secrets are are now out in the world. I'm like that's good looking out. You know those types of things. So that's good looking out, you know those types of things. So you know, don't be afraid to pull people in that have knowledge that you don't.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, of course, and just, I mean just your contact list.
Delita Martin:Yes.
Nick Petrella:Yes, you want to protect that. I mean, that's, you want to protect the contact list.
Delita Martin:You want to protect your you know, whatever your practice is, you want to protect all your process, all of those things.
Andy Heise:Yeah, it's amazing.
Delita Martin:Because you're essentially building a brand and you have to make sure that you and your brand are protected.
Andy Heise:Yeah, is um. Is kira full-time for you or part-time or?
Delita Martin:so that's interesting question I'm pretty sure it seems like full-time, but, um, I hate micromanaging as well as being micromanaged. So you know, I give you an email. Typically, typically any emails that I respond to it's the next day. I rarely answer emails after 12 noon, so she'll get an email by 6 in the morning and I don't care when you do it, I just need it done. I need it done on time. So you know, some weeks I'm sure it looks like it's full time for her. Other weeks it may look like she doesn't even have a job, but I'm about it looks like it's full time for her. Other weeks it may look like she doesn't even have a job, but I'm about getting something done and I don't want to micromanage you. If I have to micromanage you, then I need someone else. That's right.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because she has and this is recorded so you can go back and refer to it. But she's been fantastic and what's the standard 24 hours? I mean she typically when I would email, sometimes it was always within the day and sometimes it would be 10 o'clock at night. So I was like, oh, that's interesting she is absolutely amazing.
Delita Martin:So I just try you know, whenever I'm working with someone whether it's collaborating with art or admin, or working on a contract, whatever it is if I decide to work with you, I trust you and I trust your judgment, I trust your process, all of those things. So I'm going to give you that room to be who you need to be, because I expect that from you and so that's. You know, that's how relationships work with me. I don't want to micromanage you.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you don't have time.
Delita Martin:Exactly no time for that.
Andy Heise:Because you're running a studio, you're running the foundation and creating your work, and all of that requires a lot of time, but it also requires a lot of decision-making, especially since you're you know you're not necessarily hands on with every single. I mean, you know, you know what's happening, Right.
Nick Petrella:But to your point.
Andy Heise:You have people to help you with some of these things, but you still have to make the decisions and, given you know, especially given recent volatility and uncertainty in the world, I'm sure you've had to make some hard decisions. How do you navigate periods when you have to make hard decisions, typically like when there's risk involved too right. Oftentimes we're making decisions about should I do this or that, and trade-offs, all those things.
Delita Martin:Yeah, I think the deciding question with most of those not necessarily all, but most of those is whatever decision I make, can I sleep at night? That's, that's literally my deciding factor, if I can sleep at night, you know, because I am very adamant about doing the right thing whenever I can, and so if I could sleep, then I'll have to make the decision.
Andy Heise:I love that yeah.
Delita Martin:Yeah, yes or no. Yeah, I mean, there've been times when I've had things that I've been working on and I've gone to bed and I get back up like an hour later because I can't, you know, I have to finish it or I have to get it to a certain point. You know, I can't do this because I can't, you know, I have to finish it or I have to get it to a certain point.
Andy Heise:You know I can't do this because I can't sleep.
Delita Martin:So yeah, I love that as a as a as a North star.
Andy Heise:Yeah, that's it. It's funny I you said that and I I in my. In one of my classes we talk about some personal finance types of things and of course you know there's all sorts of different personal finance budget models and things like that. And uh, everybody's, everybody's tolerance for risk and that sort of thing is different and that that it's interesting. That's that's what I tell them too is like well, if you go to bed at night worried about your whatever financial situation, obviously something's not working for you. So I love that advice.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, so it's time for my favorite visual arts question.
Delita Martin:Okay.
Nick Petrella:How? How do you price your art and what should new artists consider when pricing their art?
Delita Martin:Oh, okay, that's. Yeah, that's a um, a toughie sometimes. So I personally the formula that I use not really a formula, but what I look at is the labor that goes into the work. So you know, I don't size is not the only factor, because I could do something small but it'd be more labor intensive than something large. And so you know how many processes are involved in a particular piece of artwork. If I'm doing, you know, maybe a 22 by 30, just straight black and white print, then that's not going to be as much as this multi-layered four process plus a drawing work. So that's how I price my work.
Delita Martin:What I would suggest to young artists, emerging artists, when you're looking at something like that, is I started out by going out looking at artists who were creating work similar to my work, artists who were, you know, in that same emerging arena as me. So, you know, as an emerging artist, although I liked Kerry James Marshall's work, I can't follow his model yet, you know. So I can't come out of the gate asking for those things or demanding those things or doing that. You know, I'm going to look at someone who has maybe had more of an exhibition record than I have, but we're creating similar works, similar size, similar medium, that kind of thing, and just kind of use that as a gauge for starting.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, that's great advice and you do have a formula. I would say, yeah, because you got the size, you have your labor, so all those things have to be considered.
Delita Martin:So you're considering the medium, you're considering the size, you're considering you know the cost of materials, you're considering framing. So all of those, things your brand. You have to take those things. Even your, you know your exhibition record. Even your, you know your exhibition record. So you know, because I've the Cuban Biennale, the Venice Biennale, the Smithsonian Women's Museum, I can ask for a price point that I couldn't ask for 20 years ago.
Delita Martin:So those are things that you have to consider, but also I advise or suggest erring on the side of caution with emerging artists. Be humble and not arrogant in your demands and be reasonable. You know, and sometimes you know, we get those hundred, 200 likes on Instagram and this is twenty thousand dollars. No, not quite yet, maybe in a few years, but not right now. So, just kind of being aware of where you are in the art arena.
Nick Petrella:Likes are a different type of currency.
Delita Martin:Correct, correct.
Nick Petrella:You can't pay your bills with likes yeah.
Delita Martin:It doesn't work.
Andy Heise:The research aspect of that, I think, is interesting. How do you so if I'm an emerging artist in, let's say, kansas city and uh, how do I? You know where do I start looking for comparable artists, especially if I'm thinking about like a national audience?
Delita Martin:So this is, this was my particular approach. Um, I would literally go online and google african-american female artists, united states, contemporary okay, put in all the buzzwords and see what comes up. I began to look at artists, artists whose work I was instantly drawn to, who I felt a relationship with. Where did they? Where did they go to school? What was probably, you know, that pinnacle exhibition that changed their career? What was that? What's the pricing of their work? Have they been to auction? What does their sales look like?
Delita Martin:I mean, you can pretty much get to this information and then, a lot of times, what I love about artists also is that you can get to the person next to the person. So I may not know Carrie, but I can talk to someone who knows somebody who knows Carrie if they haven't met him. So all of those things are important. You know, I've looked at, you know, mickalene Thomas, like where does she exhibit at? You know where does she start her career? She didn't start off as an, as a visual artist. So all of those things are important. So I'm going to look at this information, I'm going to glean off what I can and I'm going to apply it the way that I can. It may not be a straightforward application, but you can apply it.
Andy Heise:Yeah's a good strategy.
Delita Martin:Keep a spreadsheet or um, I keep a ton of notes everywhere right yeah, mostly sticky notes offside that's what I have literally a bunch of post-it notes that's funny so yes.
Andy Heise:I'm sitting here thinking how could I build an AI tool that would go scrape all that data from the web and algorithmically create?
Delita Martin:See, that's what we need. My husband is actually working on his PhD at a business school at U of H, and he's working on pricing the discrepancies in pricing of art.
Andy Heise:Of art. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, which is pretty interesting.
Delita Martin:We should have him on references and pricing of art, of art. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, wow, which is pretty interesting. Yeah, yeah, I told him.
Andy Heise:I was like, look, dude, stay off my lane like did I get me bad? Don't screw this up.
Delita Martin:Literally, that's the whole conversation, like don't mess this up.
Andy Heise:Yeah, yeah, yeah all right, so you've talked about this a little bit, but throughout your journey, what kinds of resources, networks, mentorship, institutional support have been most critical to you building and sustaining your art career?
Delita Martin:I was fortunate enough to have some amazing mentors as teachers. Harvey Johnson from Texas Southern University, catherine Ree, were willing to share their process, inviting them to come into the studio or take work to them for critiques, just being in conversation and constant dialogue, um, about art. So those are things that um inspired and encouraged me. Um, yeah, I think that that was about it.
Andy Heise:You know, that's something that I I I'm not sure that my students think about. Is that, like, once they graduate from school, this built-in critique, this built-in network, all of these things that you? That? Are just like intrinsic to their existence as students Once you graduate you're done. They're not built in anymore. It's up to you, and so what I hear you saying is you were very intentional about having studio visits, doing studio visits, going to the events, the openings and those sorts of things.
Delita Martin:So I had a Instagram group, which we're still. We still literally talk every day almost, but we would meet on Sundays and we had Sunday art church and we would literally somebody would bring up a project, who's going next? We would decide who's going to go on what Sunday and you'd like hey, here's some work I'm working on. This is what I was thinking about, and people are just firing off questions and offering suggestions and really picking your brain about your project and helping you work through. You know some of those hurdles that you might face. We still do that to this day. I mean, you have to do that. You have to. You can't create in a bubble. It doesn't work. Yeah.
Nick Petrella:Delita, what do you really enjoy about owning an arts business and what are your least favorite business activities?
Delita Martin:I think my least favorite is the admin work. I don't like admin work, but I love being able to wake up in the morning every single day and decide in the most fantastical way I'm going to create something I didn't create yesterday. If I want to throw a pot, I can. If I want to do letterpress, I can. If I want to etch lithography, silkscreen, it doesn't matter. I you know this. I have a huge playground to just do whatever I want to do, and I love that.
Nick Petrella:That's fun. That's the word I was going to use. You get paid to be in a playground.
Delita Martin:Literally, it's a playground.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, that's great.
Andy Heise:Well, and so, along those same lines, you know, working in all those different media, you know, were those conscious decisions that you made to do that, or?
Delita Martin:is it just kind of following your instincts or desires? Both. So I like. I don't like coming into the studio with plans. I don't do that. I don't do sketches, I don't plan, I just go straight to the artwork. And it's because I believe that I'm a vessel and so when I come into the studio the work works through me. I don't dictate. Every layer that I put on the paper determines what happens next. So that solid color feel is going to tell me what pattern goes. The pattern is going to tell me what the portrait needs to be, and from there there's a push and pull. What do you want to bring forward? What do you want to take back? How do you bring this out? Well, maybe I'll stitch it. Well, no, I'll paint it. Well, no, I'll draw it. So all of those things play into being able to create a work.
Nick Petrella:Have you always been that way, that, taking that approach, or yes?
Delita Martin:And it goes back to that whole time and schedule thing. I just freaks me out. Yeah, I don't do well with schedules or time, I'm horrible at it. Yeah, I feel trapped, so and that's literally it. And you know, trying to figure out how I create most comfortably is really how I figured it out. It's like I don't want to be tied to any certain thing, which is really interesting because I identify as a printmaker and not an interdisciplinary or multidisciplinary artist.
Andy Heise:But I like having the freedom to do whatever I want to do. Great. What about like residencies and that sort of thing? Do you do like residencies at universities or other studios?
Delita Martin:absolutely yes, um, I believe that you should always be in a position of learning. Um, you don't know everything. Like, there is 50 million different ways to make a print in one medium silk screen. There's a hundred ways to do it and I want to know all hundred ways. So, um, so I love learning. Um, I'm headed to anderson ranch in july for an advanced litho class. Um, I just think you, you have to, you know, be in the think, you have to be in the moment, you have to be able to learn and grow. Always, if you're not growing, you're dead right.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, you're putting yourself in a position of vulnerability too.
Delita Martin:Oh, absolutely.
Nick Petrella:So you have to be yeah.
Delita Martin:Yeah, when I walk in that door, everything that I knew stays outside the classroom because I want to be able to to take in what you're telling me and I feel like I'm I'm intelligent enough to to get what information I need and leave the rest. You know, I'm I'm constantly improving my process by learning.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, yeah, that's great. Well, delita, before Andy kicks off our final three questions, do you have any fun projects on the horizon?
Delita Martin:Wow, I have a ton of projects on the horizon. So, as I mentioned before, I'm working on a novella with a new body of work that's coming out called the Song Keepers, and, um, I have a solo exhibition featuring this particular body of work that will open in 2027 at the Denver Botanical Gardens. Um, yeah, so um, and lots of little bitty projects, I think. Here and there I have an exhibition that opens next year, at year, at the Indianapolis Museum in Newfields. Yeah, I think that's all I can remember right now.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, that's a lot of stuff. Well, if you need characters for your novella, you can write about podcasters named Rick and Randy, and we'll know who you mean.
Delita Martin:All right, okay, will do. Oh, my gosh yes.
Andy Heise:Well, Delita, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions, and the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an art entrepreneur?
Delita Martin:Have patience. You need the patience of Job. You know people say always question whether or not visual artists or performing artists or any type of creative feel if you can be successful and sustain yourself, and you can. But it's a lot of hard work because we don't have a script, we don't have a blueprint. But the beauty of this is that we don't have a script and we don't have a blueprint and we can make it whatever we want it to be, however we want it to be.
Nick Petrella:What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?
Delita Martin:Share, share, share, share, support and share. Go out to local exhibitions and support emerging artists, you know. Purchase their work, help them. You know, if you have a platform that you can, you know like this is great. You know, interviewing emerging artists to get their name out there. You know, encouraging people to go to exhibitions, purchasing their work. There's so much you can do and I think collectors don't and I just want to sneak this in a little bit but collectors don't realize the power that they have to help an artist with their career. To help an artist with their career. Loaning your work for exhibition, loaning your work to or gifting your work to collect, you know, to museum collections All of that helps an artist to advance their career. So you know, remember the power that you have and you know, to help someone else.
Andy Heise:Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've been given?
Delita Martin:You can't do it all by yourself. So I think if I've learned anything from my ventures is that it's okay to ask for help and it's okay to pull in people and build a team.
Nick Petrella:That's great. Well, delita, it's been wonderful to see you achieving your legacy goals, and it's inspirational to hear your relationship approach to key partners.
Delita Martin:Well, thank you so much for having me. Thank you, it's been wonderful. Thank you.
Andy Heise:Thanks, Delita.
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