#347: Robert Long (Musician) (pt. 1 of 2)

This week on the podcast is part one of our interview with Robert Long. He’s a church musician with a portfolio career that includes freelance work as a conductor, chamber musician and accompanist.  He’s also an active soloist on both piano and organ. 

Tune in to hear his practical and prudent approach to building a portfolio career!

Chapters

• 0:00 Sponsor & Series Context
• 2:35 Meet Robert Long
• 3:20 Balancing Church and Freelance
• 5:00 Calendar Peaks: Easter to May
• 5:38 Choosing Work by Mission Fit
• 6:55 A Kindness Video and Collaboration
• 8:18 Finding Players and Contractors
• 9:12 Choir Hiring: Trials and Auditions
• 11:03 Adaptability as a Core Skill
• 12:46 Budgeting with Boards and Revenue
• 14:07 Roles: MD, Producer, or Collaborator
• 16:45 Early Career Tipping Points
• 18:15 Full-Time Flex and Family Balance
• 19:54 Conflict Prevention and Culture
• 22:30 Closing and Listener CTA

Transcript

Nick Petrella: 0:00

Hi, Nick Petralla here. This episode is sponsored by Volkweins Music, a full-service shop that's been meeting the musical needs of musicians for over 135 years. They offer a huge selection of instruments, accessories, music, and more. They also have an unmatched instrument repair department with some of the most experienced technicians in the business. For years they've serviced my personal and school instruments, and their attention to detail is why I and professional musicians from around the globe trust Volkweins to service their gear. Head over to Volkweinsmusic.com to see what they could do for you. That's V-O-L-K-W-E-I-N-S music.com, helping people discover music since eighteen eighty-eight.

Announcer: 1:08

We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion, and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent, or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts, Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.

Andy Heise: 1:46

Hello, podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise.

Nick Petrella: 1:49

And I'm Nick Petrella. Today, Andy and I are joined by Robert Long. He's a church musician with a portfolio career that includes freelance work as a conductor, chamber musician, and accompanist, and he's given solo recitals on piano and organ. We'll share a few links in the show notes so you can check out some of Robert's performances. Bob, thanks for coming on the podcast.

Rober Long: 2:10

Great to be with you. I've enjoyed listening to some of your podcasts in the past.

Nick Petrella: 2:15

Appreciate it. So you're a busy church musician, but since this is a podcast about arts entrepreneurship, we're going to focus on your freelance activities. How do you stay organized and manage your freelance work given that church musicians have schedules that can be unpredictable at times?

Rober Long: 2:33

That's a very good question. I have to keep everything, definitely keep everything in writing. You know, I keep a chart for myself and um just have to go week to week. A large part of the church schedule is very predictable, but as you say, there are lots of things that pop up even from week to week that come into play. So I have to have um subs ready for myself, you know, at my church job, just in case there is something during the week and I have another event scheduled. Um that really actually happens a lot. I have a whole list of subs who come in, you know, and play for me or um sing along the throughout the year.

Nick Petrella: 3:23

Yeah, yeah. And your uh uh I guess who yeah, your pastor or whoever you report to, they're okay with you getting subs in. They just let you take care of it all.

Rober Long: 3:34

Yeah, it's very important that that's communicated. I have um talked with them, you know, before he even took the job, that there would be certain times that I'd need to be in and out, and we we work that out, I think, to everybody's benefit.

Andy Heise: 3:51

Yeah. And you're uh you mentioned sort of the um sort of the natural calendar cycle of of of church events. Um and just just so we're all so listeners and everybody we're primarily talking about the the the Christian calendar, I'm assuming. Yeah.

Rober Long: 4:08

That's right.

Andy Heise: 4:08

And so you've got, you know, your Easters and your uh Christmas and things like that. Are those the busy times? Are there some other times that maybe um we're not thinking I'm not thinking about?

Rober Long: 4:20

Those are busy times for sure, you know, through December into Christmas Eve and all of Holy Week, really, which is at a different date every year that kind of moves around a bit. And um this year, Easter was a little bit early, but we found that um May becomes really, really packed. Yeah. The schedule is just relentless with graduations and things like that. Uh right.

Andy Heise: 4:48

Yeah. And so your career uh reflects what we would call a portfolio career approach where you've got a lot of different things that make up your entire um professional activities. Uh things like performing and conducting and accompanying and all of those. Uh, how do you decide which opportunities to pursue and which ones to say no thank you to?

Rober Long: 5:10

Um, I think it has changed over the course of my career. Early on, I was looking for peak experiences. I'd say, you know, if something was in a location, uh when it yes, I want to do this because it's in Carnegie Hall or take a job because it's in a a big big venue. Um but today I think it's changed a little bit. I'm looking more for collaborations. I'm looking more for rewarding experiences with other musicians or um concerts and music that fits into my personal mission a little better. Um I think that's that's a shift that's happened over the years.

Andy Heise: 5:55

Yeah. Yeah. Do you have an example of of an of maybe uh a recent opportunity they were like, yeah, this this this aligns with sort of like you said, your your own personal mission?

Rober Long: 6:06

Yeah, so a couple years ago I produced a music video based on a a piece that I recorded. It was a song by David Friedman, who's a New York City composer, musician. And um, I'd worked with David a little bit in his master classes, his voice classes, and I said, I really want to record this. And he said, absolutely, you know, take it. But he suggested that I get a new arrangement, commissioned someone to write a new arrangement of it, which I did. Went to a colleague. I wanted kind of a chamber music feel to it. It has sort of a crossover, it's not classical, but it has um a classical feel to it in terms of the vocal production. And um he Adam Waits gave me a terrific arrangement of the piece. So I'd recorded it the previous year and was now looking to m turn it into a music video and attaching that to some work that I had done here in Patterson, New Jersey at uh food pantry. The song is about kindness and doing things for others, and that just became a backdrop for the video or for the filming of the music video.

Nick Petrella: 7:22

Yeah. You know, you mentioned collaboration, and that's that's nice because it segues nicely into this next question, uh, which is a two-part question. Where do you find most of the musicians you're collaborating with? And could you describe the audition process when you're looking for soloists and chamber musicians?

Rober Long: 7:40

Yes, there are really different groups of people, uh instrumentalists, I would say. I work through a number of instrumental contractors. I have worked through contractors over the years. So I have depending on what type of musicians you need. I had worked with the contractor of the New Jersey Symphony at one point, and he put together chamber orchestras for a group that I conducted for a decade and would put together an orchestra for Bach or Mozart or whatever we were doing. And now I have a lot of those contacts in my, you know, in my phone, and I can get to them easily. Um the other part of that question is singers. If I have a choir, I currently had put together a choir in the last three years where I work. And it's a really a semi-professional chamber choir, but it's a Sunday church choir, really excellent group. And when I bring somebody into that, I like to um try them out over time. I like to bring them in as a sub. You know, say my my soprano's out, so I bring someone else in maybe a couple of times. And then even when the position opens, I'll still have a search and bring some people in, and then even get at that point give them a trial period. Because you're gonna live with this person for a long time, especially in a regular weekly setting. And um, it's not just me. I I look for input from the people they're sitting with and singing with.

Nick Petrella: 9:15

Yeah. So it's not an audition per se, it's more of a trial. And can I work with the other?

Rober Long: 9:20

I do the audition part as well. Oh, okay. Yeah, I do I'll bring them in and say sing a solo for me and do a little sight reading and do all of that kind of stuff. When when there's um you know real audition, real opening, right? I'll do that due diligence as well. But then they also get a trial through singing with us.

Andy Heise: 9:40

Great. Who are who are most those like the seniors for an ex example? Who are most of those people? Are they full-time seniors? Are they people with regular day jobs that like to sing? Who what's the what are who are those people?

Rober Long: 9:55

It's a combination of professionals, people who have music degrees who may be music teachers or um private voice instructors, and avocational singers who are connected somehow to this church. Um, but I'm so lucky. I for instance, one of the gentlemen in the bass section, he's retired from his career teaching music, but he did his undergrad study at Juilliard in voice. Now, even though he's a retired gentleman at this point, he's one of my volunteers in the bass section. Really just an excellent addition to any choir.

Andy Heise: 10:34

Yeah. Yeah. And so over your career, um you've adapted to different roles and different opportunities, kind of like we've been talking about here. And and the the types of opportunities you pursue have changed over the years, too, like we just talked about. Um how important is adaptability to sustaining an entrepreneurial career, a freelance career in the arts? And um, is is adaptability something that you find natural, or is that a skill you had to build over time?

Rober Long: 11:02

I think I probably had to build that skill over time. And and I think the answer to this would be different for different people. Some people are very focused. You know, I'm a pianist, and that's what they do, and you know, that's um kind of laser focus that they're always on that, or I'm a collaborative pianist, always accompanying that sort of thing. In my case, I was a little more um ADD perhaps, and where I was a singer and a pianist, and had a lot of my career conducting as well. And so I I was I learned to become adaptable because I had really terrific opportunities in different positions, full-time and part-time positions.

Nick Petrella: 11:50

Yeah. What's your approach to budgeting when you're asked to put a production together outside of your church?

Rober Long: 11:58

It's it has to start with the organization. Um if you know, if this is a regular ongoing organization, say like a choral society or something like that, I look at their budget for past events, their their overall budget and their budget for past events. If this is another concert with an orchestra, what have you done in the recent three years? And um, I know that's that's kind of a general place to start. And then I also look at it, you know, their revenue sources for that program. Do they have grant money or uh producer donations, uh, what's the um audience ticket projections, those sort of things.

Nick Petrella: 12:43

Yeah.

Rober Long: 12:43

And do you find it work with a board? You if you know if it's a free if it's a organization that is longstanding, I work with their board on that, and they're that's always very helpful. Yeah.

Nick Petrella: 12:56

And I guess depending on depending on the venue, it could be in kind or it could uh cost a fair amount, I I assume. Do you find that most of the cost comes in personnel or the venue?

Rober Long: 13:11

Um in my case, it's well, it's been a combination of both. I I would say more personnel, though. Um if I'm in a church position, you know, there are often venues that will open their doors to you and and allow you to use use the venue, maybe for a a modest donation, but the um professional level of instrumentalists and singers comes brings um a higher cost with it.

Nick Petrella: 13:40

Yeah, that's what I would would have uh have imagined.

Andy Heise: 13:46

Um this makes me maybe want to back up for a second to just like the nature of somebody hires you to to do something. What are they hiring you to do typically? What's that arrangement? Are they coming to you and say, hey, we want um an Easter program? Would you put that on? Or are they saying we're doing this Easter program, we need you to come in and kind of either conduct or hire, you know, find musicians, whatever. What what's that look like for you?

Rober Long: 14:12

Again, it it depends on the organization. For instance, one of the groups that I've worked with in recent years is the Shakespeare Theater of New Jersey. Ah. An organized group. They they have regular series every year, but they'll hire me to come in and be music director for the program that runs through December. Got it. And so I'm coming in in that case, their budget is set, and I'm coming in and acting as the music director, teaching, doing a little conducting. Um and in the case, the case of that group, which is an equity house and really very very highly professional, I step aside for the performances and they go on, you know.

Andy Heise: 14:53

Yeah.

Rober Long: 14:54

They go on stage. If it's um again, a longer standing group or a maybe a group that has hired me over a number of years, then we work together on those budgets from beginning to end, from projection for the whole year to the wrap-up.

Nick Petrella: 15:13

It's collaborative. They don't give you a carte blanche.

Andy Heise: 15:15

Yeah. Okay.

Rober Long: 15:16

Absolutely.

Andy Heise: 15:17

Yeah, so a wide range of things. You're just stepping into a role or you're helping actually put together put together the the program for the year.

Rober Long: 15:26

Right. And in some cases, I produce things myself. So I'm I'm starting at that front end with grants and donations and that sort of thing. Um and this this is a great example of where you need to be flexible and you know, adaptable to to different organizations.

Andy Heise: 15:43

Yeah, yeah, because I could I could see if you you're like, no, this is this is what I'm doing, this is what I want to do, versus you know, and and maybe people hire you because you're able to to adapt and and do those things.

Rober Long: 15:55

Absolutely.

Andy Heise: 15:56

Yeah.

Nick Petrella: 15:57

Yeah. I was just gonna say that it's it's good for young professionals listening to this because there's no one right way. I mean, it's everything's negotiable and many different uh each each time is a different scenario.

Rober Long: 16:10

Right. And if in some cases, I mentioned a group I worked with up in Bergen County, New Jersey for 10 years. We developed that relationship over the years, and they kind of they changed some things and I and I adapted my own style. And I think it was really mutual, mutually beneficial. Uh it wasn't easy because I really kind of disagreed with some things at the beginning and say you must put more of the budget into advertising or or whatever it was, and that was one of the issues. Um and we we came to agreement over the years.

Andy Heise: 16:47

Yeah, yeah. It's good. So was there a moment like a tipping point in your career when you realized that you could build a sustainable career based on this type of work?

Rober Long: 16:58

You know, I was lucky pretty early on. I I did take a full-time job out of college. I I had I always say the church jobs were my day job.

Andy Heise: 17:09

Uh-huh.

Rober Long: 17:09

And I I was lucky because they it always I always felt I had the freedom to work as a freelance artist as well. Um so from very early on, I had I had that church job and I had a choral society. This was in my small town in Pennsylvania, in central Pennsylvania. Um I I got a job as a conductor and was offered another job as a conductor. You know, those things kind of came quickly. I had always played piano as a collaborative artist, um, especially through my master's degree and and beginning then and right after that. Um so it really took off early on, and and I had to learn the um the next step of what to s accept, what to take, right, and and how to balance that.

Andy Heise: 18:05

Yeah. Do you still maintain a full-time employment somewhere or are you are you completely freelance at this point?

Rober Long: 18:12

I do. I it's it's full-time, although it's a very flexible schedule.

Andy Heise: 18:16

Sure, sure.

Rober Long: 18:17

At this point, which is very nice.

Andy Heise: 18:19

Yeah. It's still but it still allows you to your point of of doing these these other pursuing these other opportunities.

Rober Long: 18:25

It's definitely a post-COVID full-time flexible schedule, which is very nice.

Nick Petrella: 18:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you anticipate that remaining for the foreseeable future?

Rober Long: 18:37

I do. At this point, it's it's very workable and it's in a we're in a great location here. Um and it's near where my wife works.

Andy Heise: 18:46

Yeah.

Rober Long: 18:46

So she has a more normal life. Normal work life, I guess you would say.

Nick Petrella: 18:53

Traditional job, I think, is what you mean. Yeah.

Rober Long: 18:55

That's that's a great way to put it.

Nick Petrella: 18:59

So whenever you bring groups of people together, there's bound to be conflict to some degree. And since that's not usually a topic addressed in music school, how do you handle conflicts that might arise?

Rober Long: 19:14

I think there are a couple things. Number one is heading them off with the past, you know, trying to establish situation where people are it's very clear what I expect of people. I'll give you for instance. In the choirs I've had for n for now many years, we have paid section leaders or paid individuals, you know, in each part, SATB. And when I had when I first encountered that, the people in those positions called themselves the soloists. Which, yeah, I could see it on your faces. That's all that assumes a lot of things. And and my assumption when I came into that job was they were section leaders. You know, they were there to help us reach another level of artistry to learn faster, perhaps, because they had sight reading skills. They had it, you know, they had different training than the avocational singers. But I've always had these fantastic avocational singers, you know, people who do theater and and off-Broadway and that, you know, some great solo voices, and everybody's voice isn't right for everything. You know, I could take someone from the Metropolitan Opera stage, and she might not be right for a contemporary Christian piece that I want to do. So I made that clear very early on, and it that really that clarity of expectation, I think, really makes a difference. The second thing is my own confidence as a musician, because there will be people who challenge the director or the accompanist. And again, there's give and take. Oh, that's a good idea, let's try that. Or if you know it's something that I know I want or that we don't have time for, because you're always under you know, the hammer of time, that we just need to move on to do things. I think those two things help a lot.

unknown: 21:18

Yeah.

Rober Long: 21:18

And I just have a really positive approach to people, you know, um giving a lot of uh I respect their opinion and respect their input. I think that makes a difference.

Nick Petrella: 21:31

That's good. And that's probably why you also have a wide range of people you can call on. You had you had mentioned your contact list. Yeah.

Andy Heise: 21:38

Yeah.

Nick Petrella: 21:38

And for the listeners who probably thinking, boy, that's a non-sequitur question. In Bob's background, I I thought I read a certificate in conflict resolution. Is that right?

Rober Long: 21:50

Yes. Yes. So that's a good idea. Yeah, that was kind of just a yeah. Yeah, just an interesting course that I took. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very helpful.

Andy Heise: 21:59

Oh, it's good to have some tools in the in the back pocket in case you need them.

Rober Long: 22:04

Yeah, this is a this is definitely a people for sure field, you know, lots of individuals, lots of lots of um performance and performance anxieties or sort of thing. A lot of personalities.

unknown: 22:17

Yeah.

Announcer: 22:20

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