Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#348: Robert Long (Musician) (pt. 2 of 2)
This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with Robert Long. He’s a church musician with a portfolio career that includes freelance work as a conductor, chamber musician and accompanist. He’s also an active soloist on both piano and organ.
Tune in to hear his practical and prudent approach to building a portfolio career!
Hi, Nick Petralla here. This episode is sponsored by Volkwines Music, a full-service shop that's been meeting the musical needs of musicians for over 135 years. They offer a huge selection of instruments, accessories, music, and more. They also have an unmatched instrument repair department with some of the most experienced technicians in the business. For years they've serviced my personal and school instruments, and their attention to detail is why I and professional musicians from around the globe trust Volkwines to service their gear. Head over to Volkwinesmusic.com to see what they could do for you. That's V-O-L-K-WEINS Music.com, helping people discover music since 1888.
Announcer:Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast, Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion, and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent, or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts, Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Nick Petrella:Hello, podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise. And I'm Nick Petrella. Today, Andy and I are joined by Robert Long. He's a church musician with a portfolio career that includes freelance work as a conductor, chamber musician, and accompanist, and he's given solo recitals on piano and organ. We'll share a few links in the show notes so you can check out some of Robert's performances. Bob, thanks for coming on the podcast.
Robert Long:Great to be with you. I've enjoyed listening to some of your podcasts in the past.
Nick Petrella:Appreciate it.
unknown:Yeah.
Robert Long:Yeah, when you're in a situation where, you know, nerves, nervousness can creep in, or adrenaline at the moment of performance can creep in. And that's always when I become my most calm. Freaks people out sometimes.
Nick Petrella:Yeah. And Andy, one change. Let's change it instead of everyone. Once it lets most. Most, yeah. Because I have worked with people, shockingly, who don't ascribe to that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I it's yeah, anyways.
unknown:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's it's just it's an interesting, I mean, the arts are like this, right? You the people who aren't engaged in the arts, they look at this and they're like, why are you spending so much time doing that? You're not getting paid, you're not getting you know, it for some, it's just anyways. Uh because it it's more than just uh it's more than than what is observable from the state. Yes. Right? There's much more to it than that.
Robert Long:To go back to the concept of you know spending a lot of time together, you know, when you're when I'm auditioning or hiring, it's really true. And whether it's church and spiritual or community and social or all of the above, it's really important for I think it's a great way to spend one's life bringing people together to literally make to harmonize with each other. I just think that's a I never look back and regret any of that time that we've spent doing that.
Nick Petrella:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, it's funny. You're go ahead, Andy. I was just saying, likewise. I mean, you may be playing concerts that yeah, maybe it's not the most artistically fulfilling endeavor. But nonetheless, like the experience, the ever the the all those things you just described are still there. Yes.
Nick Petrella:I think with the church musician, there's another dimension to answer your question and to paraphrase uh St. Augustine, when you sing, you pray twice. And I think there's that dimension that's in there. And I am not a singer, I've just I just remember remembered that quote.
Robert Long:Well, yeah, and I mean you're either singing with your voice or with your instrument.
Nick Petrella:Yeah.
Robert Long:And I believe that spiritual dimension is present in the secular as well. I I I just think there's more to it than what we see.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So this whole world of you know uh concert production and and music and being a freelance uh musical artist uh is is highly competitive, right? There's there's only so many number of gigs or festivals or commissions that exist for a large number of musicians and artists. How have you approached competition throughout your career?
Robert Long:I'm not sure I've approached it very well, but I have definitely, you know, I've always had the stability of working full-time. I have I've been a person who's done that, and in part because we had a family, raised three children, and we wanted that stability. And so it was always there, thankfully.
Nick Petrella:Yeah.
Robert Long:But the other part of it was I just took chances. I mean, I first of all, I worked with a singer years ago who did a lot of competitive festivals. I was just along as an accompanist. Okay. So I got to observe that. And you know, that that led to some concerts for her, and other times it led to some, you know, failures uh that were kind of heartbreaking. But I got to be part of that and more recently with younger instrumentalists in high school who are literally competing for things. But I always just took the chance and sent in my application, whether it was to be part of a summer festival or or whatever it was. And um, you know, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. There are a lot of people, as you say, taking part in it.
Nick Petrella:Yeah. Yeah, I like that question. I mean, because some people enjoy competitions, and other people just why are we competing in in the field of music? You know, it's not a competition. So it's in it's an interesting question.
Robert Long:And I have learned you you just cannot take it personally. You know, it's it's not always an objective choice. It sometimes you know you're competing against people of who play different instruments even. So you know, there's not it's not like an comparing apples with apples. It's really a very different um approach sometimes.
Speaker 3:Well, I think it I don't know. I think it may I think you s you said this, like your goal, ultimate goal or what was most important to you at the time was sustainability and and and sort of consistency. I think uh maybe, and I don't know this to be true, but maybe those who who pursue those types of competitive, you know, whatever they are, features or awards or whatever they are. You know, maybe th they're seeking something other than just a consistent income or a consistent, you know, career. They're seeking maybe more recognition or prestige or something like that.
Robert Long:Yes. Yeah, it and it it can bring competition can bring those opportunities. Um but I also I always looked at my own life and I thought I have 52 opportunities a year in my regular job, you know, with in front of a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Too. You know, so recognition might not usually be used in that situation, but I got to make a lot of music, you know, with a lot of musicians for a lot of people in the congregation or in the audience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great point.
Nick Petrella:Yeah. So, Bob, as I mentioned earlier, I mentioned music school, and I'm just wondering, what do you wish you learned in school that would have better prepared you for your current career?
Robert Long:What I think we should have learned in music school, at least at some level, is the business of music. No one even ever s used that phrase that you will have to know business. And especially for freelancers, you're you need to know about business when it comes to the production of a concert or advertising or um fundraising, grant writing. Never learned any of that until after graduation. But you also, if you're a freelancer, need to think of yourself, your personal finances as a company. Really. I know people have spent their whole life as freelancers, never, you know, having a regular paycheck or someone else, you know, the company paying taxes for you, that sort of thing. So you have really two big venues there where you need to learn the business of music.
Nick Petrella:Yeah. And I think that's changing. I mean, I think when all when all of us had gone to school, you are correct. That wasn't really discussed, but uh it's becoming a lot more uh it's it's being addressed a lot more, I would think.
unknown:Yeah.
Robert Long:That's good. I I know there are more d um degrees in music business, but um to you know, even for the great singer, mm-hmm he or she needs to know that that's it's a business for myself and uh if I'm out there producing and and part of that end of things, I need to know a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think your emphasis on the self-employment or freelancing um side of things is is particularly important for for artists. I mean, we we sort of know that to be true, as most arts graduates from uh music, art, uh any sort of performing visual arts programs, they most of them are self-employed, not their entire career for at least parts of their career. Uh and that has, to your point, that has implications for all sorts of different things. Um certainly the IRS and taxes not being the least of that. So um, you know, really I I I think that I I I was glad to hear you say that because I think you know, in in entrepreneurship we talk a lot about business formation, business creation, that sort of thing. But I think particularly relevant to arts entrepreneurship is the self-employment, the freelance knowledge, skills, abilities to be able to support that type of a career.
Robert Long:Even if you're like you have a career like mine, which is hybrid, I have always had the full-time work, but it's you know, there are tax implications, there are different things that come into play when a pretty good percentage of your life is freelance. Yep. And I very luckily married my accountant. So that was Oh, perfect.
Speaker 3:That was a great move. Nice move.
Robert Long:She has helped a lot of my less fortunate friends, so that's been nice too.
Nick Petrella:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So May's busy for you, April's busy for her.
Robert Long:That's right. Absolutely right.
Speaker 3:Uh so you've performed in some major venues, uh conducted in some major venues, um, and you've taught at the college level. How do you personally define success in your in your career?
Robert Long:Well, I think I think I would go back to that feeling of enjoyment, collaborating. I I'm very grateful to have had those peak experiences, you know, uh recital at in the recital hall at Carnegie Hall or the years at St. Patrick's Cathedral, you know, conducting concerts and overseeing the other part of the concert series. But when it comes right down to it, you know, it's this enjoying making music, enjoying the act of accompanying or harmonizing with someone else and um with people you know and care about, you know, over a over years and a good period of time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and certainly from the outside you've you've made a career of music, raised three kids, right? And and you're still doing it, you know. Yes. Uh certain certainly from from you know from a third-party perspective, I mean that's definitely that's a that's success, right? Uh so yeah, and but then you said personally, the the sense of community and and uh expression, yeah.
Robert Long:Yes.
Nick Petrella:Bob, say there's someone listening to this interview who wants to have a career like yours. Beyond the ability to play their instrument at a high level, what's the most important skill needed for them to be successful?
Robert Long:The answer for me might be different than for other people because I spend so much time as a con as a director of music and a conductor. But the answer for me would be the skill of teaching. Now I was lucky that my undergrad degree was a bachelor of music education, and I had no idea how important that would be in the performing world because I, you know, when you're in music ed, you're learning you're in classroom with elementary school, and I did my student teaching in high school, and that's was all fabulous. I had really excellent mentors who were positive teachers, positive with every person, you know, who stood in front of them. I have learned that that has been so important as a conductor to be able to explain what I want, or I hear something that's wrong. It and it's not just enough to point out what's wrong. In fact, it sometimes emphasizes, oh, that's flat. I mean, I've never, I think, in my life said that's flat to a singer, to a to a choir, because that's just gonna draw attention to what's wrong. I will say sopranos or tenors, take time to breathe here and I'm gonna slow that down a little bit, and fix you know what caused the problem. But so but that's approaching it from uh from a teaching point of view, as opposed to, you know, the the tyrant conductor banging his fist and saying that's not correct. I look at hear the problem or what I want to change and approach it, you know, get a quick lesson plan in my head and approach it that way. We're gonna fix this.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that. I having done a lot of freelance over the years, I would enjoy, even on pieces that I wouldn't play in, just sitting back on stage listening to the conductors rehearse, because you can learn so much from the rehearsal techniques that each uh conductor has and and the comments. And I've learned a lot over the years. So I think that's really uh Absolutely, yeah.
Robert Long:I under fact when somebody asks me if I'm going to a concert local group or something, I'm always the person asking if I could sit in on the dress rehearsal. Because I you get to hear the pieces, but I get to learn so much from conductors.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:I I heard this expression recently that I had never heard before. And it it says fault finder is a minimum wage job. And I just I just thought that was brilliant. Like it I mean, anybody can say, oh, that that's wrong.
unknown:Yeah.
Robert Long:I was just gonna say anybody sitting you know back listening can say it's wrong, but I I don't think that's why I'm there. I think I'm there to have a vision for what's for what's right or what you know is right in my vision of it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, Bob, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions. And the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an art entrepreneur?
Robert Long:Make sure you have balance in your life. You know, you if you're lucky and all these requests are coming in, that's wonderful. But you have to, again, take care of yourself, health, time off, that sort of thing. And with without a nine to five schedule, it might be a little harder than than what you imagine, you know, before you get started. But I I really think that's important because you're your own commodity here, uh, especially if you're a singer or a wind player, I think, but really any instrument, your health and stamina make such a difference.
Nick Petrella:What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?
Robert Long:As an individual, it's about I had a voice teacher who said you have to build up your own fan base. He said, You're the only person he was a singing teacher. And he said, you know, this is what you have control over. Let people know what you're doing. I know I have a friend, colleague, who does a recital every year in the same her childhood church. She goes back there, she's been going there for decades, and she'll always go back there and do that because she has so many friends and so many family members and people who knew her family who come to those concerts. And, you know, she'll invite the local conductors and musicians as well. But that's just kind of her grounding every year. And it's she does such a creative program each year. There's always a theme to it, and it's literature, and someone does an artwork representation of her theme, which goes on the cover of the program. Um advertiser. If if you get involved in groups and that sort of thing, then you have to learn to approach it. Again, from a business point of view. That I mentioned before there was a choir that I directed for many years, and they didn't put much, if any, money into advertising. They just felt like they were so busy with what they were doing, everyone would know it. And I said, When was the last time you saw a McDonald's commercial? And it was, you know, today or yesterday. But you you could drive to several McDonald's, you know what's on the menu, and yet you're still getting advertising. You have to approach it from a business point of view to let more people know about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, awareness.
Robert Long:Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 3:Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've been given?
Robert Long:It goes back to those mentors I mentioned. Uh one was in undergrad, one was a student teaching co-op person, and uh, the other was my mentor in grad school. They were such positive teachers. They just approached everyone from the point of view where they knew that you could do it and they were looking for um you to kind of find the best in yourself.
unknown:Yeah.
Robert Long:That's great. That it was that positive, yeah, positive teaching aspect.
Nick Petrella:Sure. That's a great way to end. Well, Bob, thanks for coming on the podcast. Our listeners can learn a lot from hearing your practical and prudent approach to building a portfolio career.
Robert Long:Thank you so much. It was great to be with you.
Announcer:Thanks, Bob. Thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please subscribe. Visit Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast dot com to learn more about our guest and how you can help support artists, the arts, and this podcast.
