Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#357: Jack DiIanni (Musician & Owner of Volkwein's Music) (pt. 1 of 2)
This week om the podcast is part one of our interview with Jack DiIanni. He’s had a portfolio career for over 50 years. As a performer, he's shared the stage with ensembles such as the Pittsburgh Civic Light Opera, the Pittsburgh Ballet, and the Blossom Festival Band. For 8 years he was on the percussion faculty of Carnegie Mellon University, and as a businessperson, he held management positions at Volkwein’s Music going back to 1981, becoming the owner in 2017.
Join us and be inspired by Jack's enthusiasm for life-long learning in the music business!
Hi, Nick Petralla here. This episode is sponsored by Volkwein's Music, a full service shop that's been meeting the musical needs of musicians for over 135 years. They offer a huge selection of instruments, accessories, music, and more. They also have an unmatched instrument repair department with some of the most experienced technicians in the business. For years they've serviced my personal and school instruments, and their attention to detail is why I and professional musicians from around the globe trust Volkwines to service their gear. Head over to Volkweinsmusic.com to see what they can do for you. That's V-O-L-K-W E I N S music.com, helping people discover music since 1888.
Announcer:Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast, Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion, and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent, or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts, Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. I'm Andy Heise.
Nick Petrella:And I'm Nick Petrella. Jack DiIanna is with us today. He's a friend of the podcast and a longtime friend of mine. He's had a portfolio career for over 50 years. As a performer, he's shared the stage with ensembles such as the Pittsburgh Civic Light Opera, the Pittsburgh Ballet, Wheeling Symphony, Blossom Festival Band, the Virginia Grand Military Band, and the Buzzards Bay Sunflower Music and St. Bart's Music Festival. Eight years he was on the percussion faculty of Carnegie Mellon University. As a business person, he's held management positions in Folkwine Music going back to 1981, and he became the owner in 2017. Link to Jack's website in the show notes, you can learn more about Folkwines and his musical career. Jack, it's great to have you on the podcast.
Jack DiIanni:That's right. We've known each other for a long time.
Nick Petrella:I only get better looking, right? But I don't. Yeah, just no comment, right? That's right. So so Jack, you've had a lengthy career as a performer, teacher, and business person. How did you manage all that simultaneously over the years?
Jack DiIanni:Well, part of it came mostly because of like I've just how I mentioned that I had so much help from older guys. They were so helpful. And um, you know, as a youngster playing, for instance, I was always playing with adults more than guys my age and stuff like that. So it was always they would advise me of things what to do and so forth. And um what I did uh coming out of college, um, I was lucky that right off the bat, about a month, I ended up downtown playing with Pericomo for two weeks, you know, and I was like uh slightly shocked because I was like, whoa, I'm the youngest guy here. Because I saw like experienced guys and all that. And um I got to do things like that. And after doing many different things uh for about maybe five years, my dad mentioned, he says, you know what, you need to start showing up at the store and working here too, because it'll be um uh safer uh uh about just uh being able to make money doing everything in a you know, uh because I was just playing jobs and uh and I had a few um students, you know, so it was not making uh enough money to to keep things going, you know, because um what happened too at age 24, my first son was born, you know, so now having kids and stuff like that is like, oh, I need more money, you know. And I wasn't always suffered by that, you know. It was like, okay, I just would do things, you know. And so um, you know, when I did start at the store, what was interesting too is they had me do all the percussion stuff. And that's how I ended up starting even a percussion repair shop there, because they didn't have that at the time. Yeah. So that's how things were because it was so nice that um always being coached by older guys, you know, because that time too, when I played with um Um Benny Manack, we were playing with a group called the Dodge Kids, who was um put together by the the Dodge Car guys. And um after about three months of playing with the group um it was um really funny how he first at the rehearsal he yelled at me for for this one thing that I did. We were doing a Dixieland number because he was a Dixieland wizard. And at the end of a Dixieland song, you know how there's a always a four-bar drum break? Well, what I did, I played like a million notes, like because I thought like I gotta do it like Buddy Rich. And what happened at the rehearsal is he stopped me. I never made formation for the finish the formations. It was so funny, he stopped and yelled, Jack. And what was funny too is with the whole group of you know, this is college kids and stuff like that, he swears. I don't want to say the word. He says, Well, what what the F was that? Oh my gosh. And then he said, Look, we're gonna go back and do this again, and I want to hear poetry.
Nick Petrella:Yeah.
Jack DiIanni:Okay, I don't want to hear a bunch of noise. And what was so nice is that I listened to the group then a lot more. And so when I played the four-bar break, I played it more rhythmically like what the trumpets guys were playing and stuff like that. And he says, Okay, that's better, keep that up. You know. So then a couple months later, we're finishing a job and we're we're packing up, and he's like, Jack, he says, You got this band swinging like crazy. Then the next thing you know, he put me in his Dixieland band. And here's what's the amazing thing. I was 20 years old, all the other guys were in their 50s.
Nick Petrella:Yeah.
Jack DiIanni:So I was shocked. Playing with that group, I did it for about two years. Oh, man, always learning, you know, because their experience was always so nice. And it was every time I went and played, I learned something. It was almost like like, oh, you have a lesson, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, that's true.
Andy Heise:Exactly. It made lessons.
Jack DiIanni:So that's that's been my experience about how things started with this um music world, is that always the older guys were very helpful.
Nick Petrella:So, and that that speaks to your musical maturity at a young age. But what I'm wondering, because I mean I know people who've been players, they've been store owners, they've had repair, they've but you've been doing everything simultaneously for decades. How did you have the stamina? How did you keep that up? The organizational skills, what went into it?
Jack DiIanni:Well, there's been some um funny situations uh always in in the way because um, like for instance, if I was at the shop all day and work, you know, basically like 8 30 to 5, and then at night go play a job somewhere, you know, depending on what was going on. And luckily I didn't have um a major job that was going on all the time. There were always different different jobs, you know. So it wasn't like it was every night that I was playing. And that was very helpful too, because if I would have been playing every night and all that, I would have never been able to help my wife with the kids. Right, you know, that kind of thing. So I was always concerned about um making sure, oh, how's how's how's the family? How are the kids doing? You know, that kind of thing. And uh so, you know, because it it's it's hey, it's part of life too. It's not just you can only focus on one one thing, you know. So um that's that's kind of how things went. Um and um, you know, it was you know, the schedule can vary, you know, different things, that type of thing, you know, it just just what whatever ran into you know the schedule. So that's that's how I did things like that, you know. And of course, you know, being in this in the store, I would start learning more things about stuff, you know, because the older guys would show me stuff because I was the you know the young kid at the store not not not knowing everything of what to do, you know, in in terms of that, you know. So that was that's that's pretty much how it went.
Andy Heise:Yeah.
Jack DiIanni:Great.
Andy Heise:And just just for for the listeners and for for myself, um Nick probably knows this, but when you said you graduated from college and started working downtown, what where where were you? Where'd you go to school?
Jack DiIanni:Well, I went to WVU, okay, but now I'm gonna make you guys laugh because I didn't graduate.
Andy Heise:Okay.
Jack DiIanni:Yeah. How close were you? Oh well, I was real close. Here's what happened in the last semester. I was in a history class, okay, and there was about 15 of us in the class. And about the fifth week of the classes, I asked the teacher a question. I said, you know, it's been very interesting being here in this history class. You talk all about choirs, orchestras, you know, playing piano, playing organs, stuff like that. How come you never talk about bands? And then I mentioned, I says, see this class? I says, there's gonna be at least twelve people here working at a school with bands. And what was shocking is he didn't even answer me. He made a face like he was scared. He was like stunned, you know what I mean? And I thought, hmm. So I decided, uh, hell with that class. I stopped going and I would just show up and take the the test, you know, because there was about four tests, and and obviously I did lousy on him, so he flunked me. He flunked me. But then what was funny is twenty years later, okay, my drum teacher became the dean. Okay. Oh. And I stopped in and saw him one time, you know, just happened to be down there, and um he says to me, Jack, give me a list of all the stuff you've been doing and playing, stuff like that. And he says, Because you did all this, I'm getting you the degree.
Andy Heise:Oh man.
Jack DiIanni:So it tells me you got a professional equivalency. And they gave me the degree. That's awesome. Was that Phil? That's what it was. Was that Phil? Oh, that was I'm sorry. I didn't I mentioned, yeah, Phil Faini was the guy that helped me with that. Yes. That's awesome. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, so that's that's how that that was kind of uh funny that I ended up with that 20 years later, you know.
Andy Heise:Yeah. Yeah. And you were playing downtown where? Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh. Okay. Very good.
Jack DiIanni:What I did what I did uh all the stuff downtown is I played uh Broadway shows almost all the time that was going on there. And I did the Pittsburgh Ballet and the Pittsburgh Opera for years, you know. Great. I was down there for 53 years. And I subbed with the Pittsburgh Symphony a few times, a couple things like that, you know. Um there was always interesting things going on. You know.
Andy Heise:Yeah.
Jack DiIanni:True portfolio career.
Andy Heise:Absolutely. And you had mentioned your dad had suggested you get uh you you you work at the shop. Was he involved with the shop or he was you he was just aware of it and and recommended that to you?
Jack DiIanni:My dad was uh a high school band director. Okay, and he also did union um bands because he was one of the conductors, you know, when we used to do those summer concerts all the time, because I played tons of those when I joined the union with those bands. Um and he was very helpful being my band director, you know, because he would always tell me, you know, oh what I needed to do when we were doing stuff with the school with the band, you know, the high school band and stuff like that. And then um his brother, my uncle Nuncy, was the one working at Volkwine's music. And Nuncy ended up being there for 52 years.
Andy Heise:Gotcha.
Jack DiIanni:And so um he mentioned that um there was one guy uh that was doing some percussion stuff at Volkwine's and he ended up retiring. And that's how my dad mentioned you should get in there and take that, you know, do that. So that's how that started, you know. And then when my dad retired from the high schools, he ended up coming to Volkwines and working too. Sure, yeah. Yeah, he worked with my with my uncle in in the department because they sold tons of music to all the schools. Yeah.
Andy Heise:Oh, that's so cool.
Jack DiIanni:Yeah, it was a big store in downtown Pittsburgh.
Nick Petrella:Yes, yeah, very big, yeah. Yeah, the original one, yeah.
Andy Heise:Yeah. So you're involved with all of these things, um, musically, professionally. What did success look like for you at different points in your career, and how has that changed over time?
Jack DiIanni:Well, I consider myself one of the luckiest guys about learning, okay, because um again, the old guys, okay. Um Bill Hammond was a guy that started with the um rudimental drummers. He started the the the rudiments in in the 1930s, I think like around 1932. And a friend of my dad's who were in high school together studied with Bill. And because at the time Bill was living in Florida, my dad set me up with Tom Laflame about learning, okay? And the thing about the information that Tom got from Bill Hammond was amazing because it was even more info than what the molar situation was. Because they never mentioned the the name Mollar, okay? And um it was so amazing what they showed me about natural drumming. It was so nice, and I was actually one of the lucky ones too, because um you ask, like a guy like Buddy Rich, who was so natural, he never took any lessons. Um when I started taking lessons, I never had any difficulties when they showed me the motions. Matter of fact, as a kid, sometimes I wouldn't practice and I go back to the lesson and they would go, hey, way to go, you know, that kind of thing. And what was very interesting too, because I'm I'm I uh I I don't make fun of Moeller by any means because I really um respected him too, because he discovered what uh things go well for drummers compared to other guys that were having difficulties. And the thing about it, I knew a couple of his um students, and I got to talk with one of them for two hours one day when I saw this thing going on that he played, and he mentioned how Moeller was disappointed that Ludwig, when they printed the and published the book for him, they called it the Moeller method. Okay, and Moeller said, It's not my method, it's about how to play for people, you know, how to be natural. That's why I use the word natural now, okay? And so that was very interesting hearing that from the from these students that Moeller mentioned that that hey, this is not about me, this is about you know what works, you know. And so what happened over the years is I discovered more and more answers about it, because it started with Tom asking Bill, and and Bill would say, I know this works, but then Tom wanted to know why it works. And so what actually happened is Tom went to kinesiologist and talked about the body. And it was so amazing to find out the answers now because what's going on now as a teacher, I actually know way more than I did coming out of college because I have answers from the experience of discovering things more and more as this went on, you know. And um that's been very helpful um because it made things totally um easier and better because you have to ask, you know, in this world, who can't hit a drum? Right. But can I just grab a trumpet and play it? Can I just grab a violin and play it? No. No way. Yeah. And the thing is, what is so amazing with the kinesiologist is he talked about the use of the muscles and the fingers, the hands, the arms and everything. And he even mentioned, he says, I don't know drumming, but I can tell you what this would work when you're doing other things, because he even talked about baseball, football. Exactly. He talked about a guy swinging a hammer, stuff like that. And so it's been very interesting to find all that out. And um because of that, all my friends are conductors. Okay? They're always the ones that say, oh man, you play like all you're always playing music. You're not just making noise and stuff like that. And and the thing was, it was always about the fact that playing with these older guys, they made me focus, too. Not just bang, hit you know, you you you gotta do that. Because like I told you that funny thing about Benny yelling, and then he says, Come on, I want to hear poetry, you know, that kind of thing, you know. And that that kind of thing made so much help with me.
Nick Petrella:Yeah.
Andy Heise:Yeah.
Nick Petrella:And so that's how you became successful as a musician.
Jack DiIanni:Well, here's one other funny story, okay. At age 20, I had finished my second year in college, okay, and we were playing uh a union concert with my dad, okay? And so he points to me to play the drum roll, because I was playing snare drum for the Star Spangled Banner. And guess what happened? He didn't bring the band in, he yelled at me. At a gig? At the yes, yes.
Nick Petrella:How bad was the role?
Jack DiIanni:Yeah. Whoa, you know what I mean? So that concert was an hour and a half long, and I was like, oh boy, you know. And so on the way home, he says, What have you been doing at college for two years? He says, What about the technique? You know, that kind of stuff. And I mentioned to my dad, I says, you know what? All I've been doing in school, just always playing music. Never, we never, it was never talked about technique, you know. So what I did is I stopped back and saw Tom and told him what happened. And he mentioned to me, he says, Jack, he says, in the two years of college, he says, have you used your arms much? And I says, no. He says, get back to doing that. So that saved me. That was that was so I was so glad that I messed that up that my dad noticed, because then I went back to using my arms, and going back to college the next year, the teacher always would say, Boy, that sounds good. Way to go. You know, he said that to me many times. And it was because I was getting back to using my full strokes, not half strokes, not finger strokes only, you know. Because you have to ask yourself, you know, in the percussion world, do you only use your fingers? No. Right. You know, you're connected to your body. You gotta you gotta know how to use your shoulders and and and arms and and and wrists, all that kind of stuff. And so when I got back to doing that, I always made sure I was hiding practicing with my arms. And and then I would get the the the thankfulness about, oh, that sounds good. That's great. So that was it, that was a saving event, yeah. Yeah. That my dad noticed that, hey, what happened to that role? And probably luckily I was only 20 years old at the time. Yeah.
Nick Petrella:That's right. Yeah.
Jack DiIanni:Yep.
Nick Petrella:And you know, for the listeners, uh Sanford Moeller was uh a pedagogue and he taught a lot of people. And I think correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Joe Morello one of the guys who played with Dave Brubeck? Wasn't he a Sanford Moeller student? And we'll link to all these in case people are are interested.
Jack DiIanni:I believe so. I'm um uh what's a little scary in my age, I do forget a lot of names, you know, that that kind of thing. So you're you're probably correct, yes, about that. Yes.
Nick Petrella:Well, either way, I'll lick I'll look them up and uh and put them on there.
Jack DiIanni:Yeah. Well, see, the one thing that I discovered too about um the so-called molar thing about natural, it it's not only about playing drums, it's about playing all percussion. Yeah. It's transferable. Because what I discovered is you do not have to start over if you go to play timpani or you go to play xylophone, bells, marimba, whatever, keyboards, you know, that kind of thing. And the other thing is if you know how to use your your um arms and stuff like that, then you can play symbols. Sure. You know, because you have to act. Okay. Yeah. Sometimes the symbol world, I laugh my head off, okay, because there's such goofiness about what is what is done. And and it it's it's definitely about um bad strokes and also about bad ears, because it's it's funny how a lot of times you'll hear a flam on a cymbal instead of just a just a clean cymbal stroke, you know. Yeah. That kind of thing.
Nick Petrella:So let's take what you learned as a professional musician, right? And kind of let us know how that helped prepare you to become a successful business owner.
Jack DiIanni:Well, it was actually scary. See, um what I did one time is I had this book I was reading, and this guy mentioned that he had a friend, and his friend's dad, he called him a really interesting guy, okay? And he thought, oh, this is like having a second dad. This guy is so smart about things. Well, here's the comment that he made. He said, What I don't like is that schools do not make sure of the abilities of what children could do. Okay? And what he meant by that, he says, look, they have to understand that all children are born geniuses. And what you have to find out is about is what they're good at. And this guy would mention, he says, look, he says, everybody is not good at the same thing because if we all did the same thing, the life would be totally boring. So this guy was very interesting about that, you know what I mean? So when you're talking about me doing, you know, the playing versus working at a at the store, it's a slightly different subject. You know, of course, you know, we know about music, but of course, could could you um could I answer every question, like if somebody came in and asked about a clarinet, you know, no, I'm a drummer, you know, that kind of thing, you know. Um but the thing is, I was uh um I'm pretty much what I noticed, I'm pretty much like my grandfather. What I noticed about him, he worked all day. And I have a tendency to do that. I I don't sit around. I always want to be doing stuff, you know. And um, you know, when I was at the uh, like I said, when I started, the older guys showed me what to do and things like that, and I keep learning things. And then luckily too, um a guy came into the store with his son one time to buy some sticks, and he ended up asking me about giving him lessons. And so this guy, his name is Bill Gray, he ended up running a big car business that his father was doing, and then he took it over. And so I ended up getting together with him and talking about things about business, about how to run things and all that. And so that was very helpful because again, you have to ask. I've always found that adults help me in terms of always getting things going in in a good way. And so he was very helpful in doing that. So that was what um helped me in terms of you know doing stuff at the store. And you know, when you ask, you know, every day you're at the store, you're gonna find out, oh, here, something new going on. There's this, do that, you know, that kind of thing. And um there's there was things like that going on, and that's that's what what we had to do too. And one thing you always notice, too, because you know, people are different. It's not like everybody's the same. So and that's not that's not I'm not making fun of that. Um the idea is that not everybody works exactly the same way. You know, some people are working harder than other people, that kind of thing. That's just what that is. So um that's what um I learned about that, and then um, you know, since um my um family was um a fair amount was at the store working at one point in time because my uncle would grab other people from the family if they could help at the store, you know. And um in the end though, since we were there so long, that's how the Volkwine family said, okay, we're gonna make sure you guys become the owner, you know. And that's how I ended up taking over the ownership um in 2017.
Nick Petrella:So if I just summed up real quick, your work ethic affects your lifelong learner and that you sought out mentors, that's what you learned from being a musician that you brought over to the business side. You just applied it there?
Jack DiIanni:Yes, yes. It's it you know, what what I've always noticed too is it's always about um no matter what you're doing, you have to be focused on making sure things get done. And that's that's just about anything, because you could be at home doing things, you know, you could be doing things with your kids or whatever, and then and and it's always about being focused correctly versus missing, you know, doing something incorrectly. Now, not that anybody's perfect, you have to ask, have I done ever done something incorrectly? Yeah, it's happened, you know. That kind of thing. It's it's it's not that uh, you know, there's a person that has never made a mistake, you know. Yeah. You know, that kind of thing. So that's what's just typical, you know.
Andy Heise:Did you ever feel any pressure, Jack, to focus on one thing, whether it was the business or playing or maybe teaching or something like that? Or did you find you know the variety and and the stability that doing all of those things provided uh helpful?
Jack DiIanni:I think it was all helpful because I never um would back off whether I was playing, working, or teaching. You know, that that kind of thing. Because even to these days, you know, I have a few students and I'm very interested and concerned about, you know, what I'm showing them and that kind of thing, you know. And um it's always been, you know, um the type of thing because well, here's a funny story, okay. Like for instance, at the opera, okay, I know there's been times in New York, 'cause uh because uh a guy that played up there told me this, okay? So I'm not making this story up. The guy told me. He says, Jack, he says, you'd be amazed. He says, sometimes during the opera, the percussionists and the temp uh and trumpet players were not playing, so they'd get out of the pit. Okay, because behind in in in the New York, I think, area, there was like a uh you can go have a snack right behind there, and you know, that's a canteen or something. Okay, yeah, they were doing that. And then it came time where they were supposed to be playing, and guess what? They weren't in the pit. Oh no. And I thought, I thought, holy smokes, that's so funny because you have to ask, okay, how many notes did the violinist just play? A million. Yeah. These guys play nothing, they're not even in the pit, they're getting paid, they should have got fired. Because this guy told me that. See, and here's the thing: here's here's what you could uh here's what I would always do. Like, for instance, playing a Mozart opera, there'd be maybe like twenty-eight numbers, and there would only be seven numbers where there was timpani. Okay. So guess what I did? I sat there and listened to the music the whole time. Okay. I would do that because it was so amazing to hear that and always stay with it, and then you're in the zone. Because it was funny, even if once in a while the the the trumpets would go, hey Jack, which number are we on? You know, because I said because they were reading the magazine, and I I would not be doing that. I would be no, I'm I'm staying focused. I would do that. You know what I mean? And and the thing is, what amazed me about it, okay, it was so amazing, you know, being a percussionist, I was still amazed at Mozart because he passed away at age 35. And I thought, man, if he lived to 70, how much more music would have been fabulous? Wow. Because he did tons of stuff that was fabulous, you know, up to age 35. Oh. And it would have been shocking if he would have lived longer, you know. And and what's funny is my opera conductor, my last guy, Anthony Walker, who's a dear friend of mine, um he mentioned, he says, he says, you're the only drummer that asks musical questions.
Nick Petrella:Oh, that's funny. You know, in the defense of the trumpet players.
Jack DiIanni:Well, we love about that, you know, that kind of thing. You know, but and it was always about, well, hey, let's let's talk about the music, not just about making noise, you know.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I think counting is the hardest part, but I'm easily distracted.
Jack DiIanni:Well, anyway. It's um it can't it can be. It it but but but I would, you know, like um you you uh yeah, you but stay focused. That's that that's the that's the thing that always um you know would would go on, you know, that kind of thing. Well, because here's what here's what I did did a lot at the opera too. Okay, when we were at rehearsals, I'd play a note and I'd say, Hey, that's a wrong note. Whoa. So on the break, I would go over to the assistant, he'd have the the copy of the the music, and you know, and I'd say, Yes, hey, can I see major such and such, you know, and he look it up and say, Oh, look, everybody's playing this note. Yeah. And and and what I realized, see, is over the years, when these operas were written years ago, the timpani weren't able to quickly be tuned because there was no pedals. So they had to stick with an another note, you know. So I would always cor correct the notes.
Nick Petrella:Yeah.
Jack DiIanni:I would say, oh, this is gonna make the conductors very happy. And not only the conductors, this is gonna make the composers very happy.
Nick Petrella:Yeah. You know, you could do that with modern drums.
Jack DiIanni:Yeah.
Nick Petrella:So I I want to switch gears here and just ask you what keeps you up at night as a business owner. Um does anything keep you up at night?
Jack DiIanni:No. Um I'm just um you know, well, see, now that I'm retired, it's it's pretty funny how I will go home, you know, and have dinner normally, you know, that kind of thing. And if I sit down and maybe watching TV for a few minutes, I'll end up falling asleep. You know, and then about 45 minutes or an hour, then I w I would wake up, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. And you have to ask, see, I used to make the joke about when I was young, I would work from 8 30 in the morning to 11 o'clock at night because I would work at the store and then do a show or something at night, you know. And of course, sometimes the schedule would change because sometimes you might have an afternoon rehearsal, you know, that kind of thing. So I was uh sometimes jumping around, but um I was never falling asleep being younger, you know. And what is kind of noticeable about this is the fact that I did notice that my dad would come home, you know, when he was older, and he would like sleep for an hour and then you know, wake up and whatever, that kind of thing, and and we would um do other things. So I I think it just I'm following to the situation more like just happened with my dad, you know.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, so nothing nothing keeps you up at night. And that that warm-up sleep's important. It's like running a marathon, right? You always have to have a little warm-up important. Yeah. Before you go to bed.
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