Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#358: Jack DiIanni (Musician & Owner of Volkwein's Music) (pt. 2 of 2)
This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with Jack DiIanni. He’s had a portfolio career for over 50 years. As a performer, he's shared the stage with ensembles such as the Pittsburgh Civic Light Opera, the Pittsburgh Ballet, and the Blossom Festival Band. For 8 years he was on the percussion faculty of Carnegie Mellon University, and as a businessperson, he held management positions at Volkwein’s Music going back to 1981, becoming the owner in 2017.
Join us and be inspired by Jack's enthusiasm for life-long learning in the music business!
Hi, Nick Petralla here. This episode is sponsored by Volkwein's Music, a full service shop that's been meeting the musical needs of musicians for over 135 years. They offer a huge selection of instruments, accessories, music, and more. They also have an unmatched instrument repair department with some of the most experienced technicians in the business. For years they've serviced my personal and school instruments, and their attention to detail is why I and professional musicians from around the globe trust Volkwines to service their gear. Head over to Volkwinesmusic.com to see what they can do for you. That's V-O-L-K-W E I-N-S Music.com, helping people discover music since 1888.
Announcer:Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast, Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion, and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent, or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts, Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. I'm Andy Heise.
Nick Petrella:And I'm Nick Petrella. Jack Deanney is with us today. He's a friend of the podcast and a longtime friend of mine. He's had a portfolio career for over 50 years. As a performer, he's shared the stage with ensembles such as the Pittsburgh Civic Light Opera, the Pittsburgh Ballet, Wheeling Symphony, Blossom Festival Band, the Virginia Grand Military Band, and the Buzzards Bay Sunflower Music and St. Bart's Music Festivals. Eight years he was on the percussion faculty of Carnegie Mellon University. As a business person, he's held management positions in Folkwine Music going back to 1981, and he became the owner in 2017. We'll link to Jack's website in the show notes. You can learn more about Volkwines and his musical career. Jack, it's great to have you on the podcast.
Jack DiIanni:Nice to see both of you guys. It's nice to meet Andy, and it's great to see you, Nick, like because I've only seen you for years. That's right. We've known each other for long times.
Andy Heise:So uh Jack, as we've been discussing, your your work at Volquines has spanned decades. And I'm curious to uh from your perspective how the music products industry has changed over the course of your career and how do you uh adapt to that and keep the business resilient?
Jack DiIanni:Well, the biggest change has has been two things. There's way more things done electronically than many years ago. Okay, there's that. And then because of now there's so many um websites and so forth, um business is done differently, you know. Um see our store was always um in this situation, we were very um focused on always helping the schools. That was the thing we would do the most, you know. Um because even t to this day, we I have guys that are sent to visit the schools, you know, that kind of thing. And that and that's very helpful. And um then, of course, then you have just the the regular, just like other people just walking in because they play a trumpet or they play a clarinet or looking for something, you know, that kind of thing. Um one of the biggest things that has changed is the fact that um this is a funny story. My wife's dad one time, who was basically a truck driver, not a musician, he walked in our store one time and he thought he was in the wrong place. You know why? In the in the early times, the store looked like a library.
Andy Heise:Uh huh.
Jack DiIanni:We had so much paper music, okay, it was huge. Now that's gone away because of technology. Definitely gone away. There's not as much sold via you know, buying books, buying, you know, that that because it can be done electronically. That's the biggest change, you know. The other changes uh are not, you know, like for instance, you have to ask, has a trumpet been way different from 1960 to now? Right, right. Yeah. You know, no, there's no big changes, you know, the violin, stuff like that, you know what I mean? I mean, there's different companies that have done stuff and stuff like that, but it's not that that like um the instruments are totally different of any of that sort. You know. The biggest change is, yeah, like I said, has been we used to be more of a library, now definitely way more musicianly. Yeah. That's the big change.
Nick Petrella:Yeah. Yep. You uh you employ dozens of people at the at the shop. What do you look for when hiring, and what advice would you give to any listeners who may want to work in the music products industry, either in retail or distribution or whatever?
Jack DiIanni:Well, that's that's a little hard for me these days because see now that I'm the owner, I have uh Matthew is I s have him assigned as the president, and Christine is is also the they're the two that are in charge. So they do the hiring now, you know. Um but just in in thoughts of process, for instance, um like we have a lot of guys that do repairs, and several of them have been here for many years now, you know. And um they have picked up on um just a the learning of repairs, you know, and and they're they're there's there's a handful of guys back there that are uh quite amazing. Matter of fact, two of them are close to eighty years old now. Wow. They've been here that that long of a time. And and um the one guy does a lot of brass and he gets things sent to him because people know him from all over the place, you know. And like guys from the Pittsburgh Symphony come up and stuff like that, you know. And then uh the other guy, um he was um amazing at everything. He actually ended up doing more um clarinets and flutes and stuff like that and saxophones, but he could still do brass, and the other thing he could do is strings. And this is this guy um is one that um is amazing when it comes to doing things with machines and stuff like that. Because every once in a while, if we get stuck doing stuff at the re at the drum shop and we have something that's going on, we'll go over and ask them, hey, can you can you do this? And they'll go, Oh yeah, we can fix this. We show you how to fix it, you know, that kind of thing. That's great. So that's that's what's been uh interesting there, you know. Um and other people, for instance, some of them that have just come to sell, be sellers here, you know, or go to the schools, they don't necessarily always stay as long because they may end up with bigger jobs. You know, because they're they tend to be somewhat younger because they're they're looking for a job and finding that. So that's that's the two differences about you know the the um guys. But I don't do any of the hiring now. I I leave that up to Matthew and Christine. Gotcha. Gotcha. Sure.
Andy Heise:So it sounds like in I mean Volkwines is an institution, right? It's been around for what, 125 years or something like that? Is that right?
Jack DiIanni:It started in 1888.
Andy Heise:Yeah. That's just amazing. Um so I'm I'm curious, like honoring the tradition of Volquines as an institution versus and while also staying innovative and up to date and and dealing with all of these changes that have happened in in the music products industry. How do you how did you think about that and navigate that?
Jack DiIanni:Well, being it I'm the owner, I would never have changed the name. You know, there's no way that this has been established for years here, you know, in the in the Pittsburgh area. Because what's happening now is because of the like the website things and all that, we are doing sales now and and end up sending things to different states that that only happened like in a small way years ago, because it was always more locality, you know. And this is now going on where um yeah, we're we're doing a lot more um things, you know. Uh you find out, oh, we have this pair of of uh like for instance, just like uh a typical um Marimba mallet that nobody else has in stock, and somebody found out we happen to have it in stock, so we're sending it, and you find out oh, you're sending this like across the States. Yeah, you know, you send it to Colorado, you send it to Michigan, you know, that kind of thing. You know. Sure. And that definitely is newer than you know years and years ago.
Andy Heise:Right. You know. Yeah. Yeah. So so leveraging that brand and the the name, as you said, and then just but adapting to the different distribution channels that are now available because of the web. You mentioned inventory.
Jack DiIanni:Go ahead, Jack. Well, inventory, you know, you you always you know it can be tricky to like discover um exactly what you need inventory-wise, you know, because you know, it like you say, everybody's different. They're not the same. It's not like you're always going to sell the same thing, that kind of thing, you know. And so um what we've discovered um in inventory is sometimes we'll notice, oh, we ordered this three years ago and it's still here, you know. Oh. That kind of thing. So then we know, okay, we'll try to to we'll try to sell that, you know, maybe at a slightly lesser. Lost literally that kind of thing, but then not order another one because you know it's not going to end up, you know, being sold.
Nick Petrella:So how how do you and your crew determine what to keep in inventory? I mean, because there are probably hundreds of thousands of items in the musical instrument world.
Jack DiIanni:Well, we run into things like when we hear from uh what the schools want, that kind of thing. But see, we also do a lot of uh rentals for students. You know, so obviously you have to have the right number of things so that you don't run out of the instruments to be rented. Yeah. Right. Gotcha. Yeah. But like I said, the rest of it's always a little bit of a guess, you know, because you don't always know, you know, if you're gonna sell, you know, all these verses versus something else, you know. That kind of thing.
Andy Heise:And you have a you have a you have a good history to go off of too. You know, you've done yep, it's n it's not the first time you've you've had to order inventory, so you've got some some historical uh references for for that as well.
Jack DiIanni:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's um that again, too, that's more focused on uh the the job of Matthew and Christine because I um I I tend to make the joke now. People when they ask me, are you the owner, I say, no, I'm the janitor. Because I will do far more stuff of helping you know with with the generality of the business, you know, if things need straightened out or just you know, reorganized stuff like that, that type of thing. You know. Because we just um Well, and that also helps because every once in a while we might accidentally find, oh look, this was in stock. We forgot about this. Oh my goodness. That kind of thing. I mean that that's that's that sounds like a big mistake, but it's not. That's not about uh things happen. Yeah. Yeah. It's be well, it's because sometimes things get so busy, like, oh, you'd you'd be um amazed, for instance, like what happens at the end of the school year? We get tons of repairs from the schools, okay? And so when they're all set up in the warehouse, you know, you have to make sure you know, oh, that's a repair, that's not for sale, that kind of thing. And the guys the guys all mark them up and all that. But then if you're looking at like one shelf and you say, oh, this is new stock versus the other shelf is repairs, you know, you you're just trying to keep track of things.
Nick Petrella:Don't want to confuse those.
Jack DiIanni:Yeah, it's not it's nothing, it's nothing about you know being a dummy. It's just that you've got to just keep track. You know, that's that's that's all about, yeah.
Nick Petrella:I mean, sure. I can remember when I was working in the music products industry going to stores, not Volkwines, but other stores, and they don't have inventory control. And there'd just be boxes and things. I was like, how do you even know what you have? But that's not that wasn't a NIC problem. Anyway.
Jack DiIanni:Well, yeah, some things some things it could be tricky sometimes. For instance, if um you have an item and let's say it got placed in two spots. Right. You might not know, oh, you have extra. So sometimes when I see that, I'll collect them and put them in one spot, you know, that kind of thing. You know, because that's that's just okay. You just happen to do that, you know. So yeah.
Andy Heise:Yeah.
Jack DiIanni:Yeah. Yeah. But there's so much stuff. It's not like, boy, this is easy. You know, it's tri it can be tricky. Yeah.
Andy Heise:Yeah. For sure. Jack, we've talked, I think we've talked a lot about this, my next question, but I'll I'll just go ahead and ask it anyways. Um looking back, were there experiences early in your life or career that left a lasting impression on you and how you approach your work both as a musician and as a business owner?
Jack DiIanni:Well it's all it's mostly been about all the performing. I've been shocked. Okay. It's been a lovely thing. And please don't uh I don't want people to think that I'm trying to brag here because I don't like to sound like I'm bragging. But there are some nice things that really happened. Okay. The first ballet conductor, his guy's name was DeRosa, um he was a very demanding guy, and uh he put me on the timpany. That's how I ended up end up playing timpani for the opera and stuff like that. And um what I ran into it was so so funny. Um I at the time I was about twenty-eight years old, and we were doing a ballet, and there happened to be a guy, I think he was playing cello, and he was from the Boston Symphony. And I was wondering, I says, Huh, I wonder what he's doing in Pittsburgh these days. You know, how how do you end up being, you know, here at the ballet? And so after about the fourth night, he comes walking over and says, Hey kid, you're the only one that sounds like Vic Firth. Way to go. Oh I was like, Oh man, I almost fell off the chair, that kind of thing, you know.
Andy Heise:Yeah.
Jack DiIanni:And so that was so that was so lovely. Um and the other thing is when I did Broadway shows when guys were traveling, the conductors, many of them always say, Boy, I'm hearing stuff out of your corner I haven't heard for months.
Andy Heise:It's awesome.
Jack DiIanni:You know, and and well that's the sad part about that is there's a percussion world that doesn't know how to play all dynamics. You know, because cause I've actually noticed a couple times where I was at a show and I didn't hear any percussion. So sad, you know, that kind of thing. And so that happened. Um then um another shocking thing is that um my second um opera conductor, John Macherry, one night we were getting ready to do a show. I was in the hallway walking in, and he came walking in with his wife. And he says, Hey Betty, I want you to meet Jack. He says, This is my best timpany player ever. He says, Nice. He says, Jack, you sound better than everybody. He says, You sound better than everybody in California. I want you to come to California. Because see, Mocherry did tons of work in California, and he also did tons of work playing other operas in different cities, you know, that kind of thing. So I ended up being his favorite there, but I said, sorry, Mount Cherry, I'm not coming to California. That's not the state I'm gonna live in, you know, that kind of thing. But that was the comment he made. Oh, and I was just like, was like, whoa, I felt Yeah, it just keeps you keeps you going. Yeah. Well, the thing is, too, in my um world of music, I never wanted to do one job. Because there was a time where I could audition for timpane in the Pittsburgh Symphony, and I said not interested. Because I didn't want to become only a tympanist. I wanted to be, you know, because I love playing drum set and all the things, other things, you know. So the things that happened were so nice. Um so that thing the Malcherry said was so shocking. Um and then um Anthony Walker considers me his favorite guy too. He's always said so, you know. Well, these guys uh all these guys were amazing musicians, man. I was so always so shocked about that. And then the thing that happened too was uh this was uh around um I don't know, seventeen or eighteen years ago. I was up at the band in Ohio, the Packard Band, as a sub playing bass drum and cymbals. And the conductor was Loris John Shishel, who was the Virginia Grand Military Band conductor. Okay, and he's a So when we were rehearsing, I was stunned. I says, Oh, this can I was thinking to myself, this conductor, oh, he's excellent too. Man, what what nice stuff he was doing. So after the rehearsal, he comes over and says, Hey, you sound better than everybody else. I want you in my band. So he inv he invited me to the band. So for 15 years, I was able to play in the Virginia Grand Military Band playing bass, drum, and cymbals.
Andy Heise:Wow, that's awesome.
Jack DiIanni:And the thing about it, too, is we met John Philip Sousa IV, the great grandson. And this was very helpful because he gave Loris all the stuff that his great grandfather had. And Loris works in the Library of Congress music department, so he put it's all in the library now. It's great. So we have all this historical stuff. So I discovered more historical things about it. And the other thing is And instruments or when you say historical stuff, you mean music or music? Instruments or both. Oh the real arrangements, because I showed you how, Nick, I gave you those real arrangements of those marches because there's there's wrong things that were were printed because uh when he died, you know. Yeah. So that's fascinating. That was fascinating. And and the other thing is what was so shocking about it is, you know, uh Gushelmke, the bass drummer for Sousa, was the main contracted guy for that band. Okay, he was the number one contracted guy. And so here's what here's what happened. Okay. I would go down to Washington a couple times, and John Phillip Sousa IV was there. He never said hi, Jack. You know what he said? Hi Gus. He called me Gus. He says, You're the nut you're the new Gus. That's what he called me. I was so shocked, you know, that kind of thing. And um that's been so stunning that um you know that that was such uh things you remember. Yeah, and it's like, oh my, it's so, you know. And yeah, it's in matter of fact, if you see if I sound like I'm crying, it's because it's bringing tears to me that all this stuff occurred, you know, because I am very uh so focused on things, yeah, you know, that that's that's just what I do. That's what I do.
Andy Heise:Yep, it's amazing.
Nick Petrella:Jack, in the era of the Internet, what does Volkwines do to maintain customer loyalty?
Jack DiIanni:Actually, I'm not a hundred percent sure of that by any means, because that's done by Matthew and Christine and all them, because um I'm not one of those guys that does much with computers and stuff like that.
Nick Petrella:You know, and you don't micromanage, you you hire those people and it's up to them to maintain.
Jack DiIanni:Yeah.
Nick Petrella:Yeah.
Jack DiIanni:Yeah. Well, see, I haven't done any hiring lately. You know, uh like I brought Matthew and Christine in when I when I found them because I I just knew how they were going to be very good at what they were doing, you know, that kind of thing. But of course, I let them take over and they're doing things now, you know. So most of this is all in their decision about are things you know going well with with what is all going on between the sales and the people and all that kind of stuff, you know. Because they they they always make sure that they have the helpful guys that make the trips to the schools and all that kind of stuff, you know. And I've been hearing things too that like for instance, oh, the teachers are very happy with those guys. So that's nice to hear that. You know, that's that's that's that's very good, yeah. Because, you know, what what we're always trying to be is, you know, you want to be helpful. It's not always that you're gonna um just you know, you're trying to make a dime. Sell sells right. You know, you're you're you're yeah, that kind of thing. It's it's yeah, we've been always doing things like, okay, we're very helpful about this, you know. That kind of thing. Yeah.
Andy Heise:So taking taking over an existing business like Volkwines isn't isn't a path to business ownership that I think most people probably think about or consider. How did that opportunity come about for you and what would you say to someone considering that type of a transition or career?
Jack DiIanni:Well, it it it's got to work out for them. Um you know, um in terms of ownership there's different ways that you, you know, it could be done, you know. I I've I don't know all the um ways that it's done because it's I've never experienced that, but I know that it's not always about oh, you end up paying millions of dollars, you know, that kind of thing, you know. Um that type of thing. Because um you know, see what I'm focused on is how I'm gonna be able to create this being the ownership for Matthew and Christine. You know, that kind of thing. Uh that's I mean that's that's the personal thing uh here. Sure. But you know, other places it's all it it can all be different because I know this one guy uh that helped me one time uh mentioned it. Um you could some some companies have set up a thing where they they end up making um all the um owners. Oh, yeah. I mean all the employees owners. Yeah. That kind of thing, you know. And um they they this guy that um did this actually, he did, he did the test about that, and he said, Oh, we looked at that just to see if that can happen with yours, and he says no. And I didn't know all the reasons why, but he says he just says it doesn't it doesn't work, you know, that kind of thing.
Andy Heise:But how did how did it how did it come how did you come become come into the ownership of of Volkwines? And you said your uncle was owned the business for a period or worked in the business? Yeah. How did you come to the other?
Jack DiIanni:He was part of the ownership part. He was part owner. And then um we were set up as the um the next generation of ownership, you know, how this is gonna work. You know what I mean? Sure. And then of course, uh like for instance, when I did the ownership, then I had much to turn over to the Volquine family.
Andy Heise:Yep.
Jack DiIanni:You know, that kind of thing.
Andy Heise:Yep.
Jack DiIanni:You know. Sure. Yeah.
Andy Heise:Yeah.
Jack DiIanni:And matter of fact, it's still not totally over with uh as far as like, for instance, the purchase of the building. Ah, right, yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Still working on paying for the building. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy Heise:So, Jack, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions. And the first question is, what advice would you give to us to someone wanting to become an arts entrepreneur?
Jack DiIanni:Well, it's all about ability, you know. When I mentioned the fact that, you know, um people got to know what they're strong at, what they're good at. You know what I mean? Because you have to ask, can everybody do this? Can everybody do that? You know, that kind of thing. And it it just depends on what situation they are in, you know, because there are people that have, you know, abilities, for instance, to be doctors, you know, that kind of thing, you know. And people there are people that have abilities to be musicians, there are people that have ability to be in sports, you know, different things. So it's about just knowing how that um fits into yourself, you know, because you don't want to go into anything with tons of pressure. See, because I make the comment about lessons with kids. I I all ask this question. I said, Did the teacher ever tell you to relax? And they say, Yeah. And I said, But ever to show you how to relax, you know. And the thing is, what's interesting about all that, see, because the kinesiologist mentioned the fact that whatever you're doing, you have to know how to relax. You know, because for instance, um, like I have a son who's a fireman, and I have a son who's a police officer. Okay. And you have to ask, when they're with their vehicles and stuff like that, are they gonna be totally tensed up and stuff like that? Yeah. Because I I remember my son, uh, they were having him practice driving the big fire trucks. And he was in this small town with small streets, and I was one time I was going through there and I thought, wow, how do you get that truck through this street? You know, yeah. And um it was stuff like that. And you have to ask him, um, you know, would would would he be like totally like locked, you know, that kind of thing. And so no matter what you're doing, you don't want to be totally tense. Because again, that doesn't feel good, too, you know, because you know, you have to ask, if you're tense all day, oh, what would that do to you? You know, that kind of thing. So that was very interesting from the kinesiologists saying stuff like that, you know.
Nick Petrella:What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?
Jack DiIanni:Um sadly, I think that's very difficult these days. Okay, because when I'm looking at all the jobs that I've done, live music years ago, a lot of that's gone away. And here's a statement. I think this was done in the year of 1913 by John Philip Sousa. Technology will wipe out live music, is what he made the comment. And I can see that that definitely has happened. Um because I remember doing shows, you know, where you had the places were always totally loaded and stuff like that. Now you do a show and it's not. And what I noticed too about a lot of this is there's not a lot of youngsters at these things. You know, that kind of thing. And so you just have to wonder, like, for instance, too, are the youngsters like maybe more involved in sports or something else, that kind of thing, you know. And I'm not saying that's uh um I'm against that. It's that's just what happens, you know, that in that regard, you know what I mean? But I do know that um the um the electronically tech yeah, the technology thing situation has created definitely less live music because I know that um Sousa also refused to have his band recorded. I think in the history there is only a couple recordings from that history of that band.
Andy Heise:Wow.
Jack DiIanni:And they did thousands of of concerts. Wow. Yeah. They did that that's amazing how live yeah, they were always doing live things, and that's that's the thing, you know. So that's what's scary about the the the life of the music now, you know. Um that's um who knows? Could it grow back, possibly? So just don't know, you know, that what what is with that, you know what I mean? Uh one thing that's a little um noticeable um from the store situation here is the high school bands aren't as big as they used to be.
Andy Heise:Yeah.
Jack DiIanni:Less kids. So, like I said, more must be doing sports or whatever, you know. It's not like nobody's doing it, but I remember, you know, we when I was in high school, you know, sometimes you'd go to a football game and the other the other school man was a large band, you know. Like I might have been in an 80-piece band, and that band was like 170 or something like that, you know, that kind of thing. So that's that's the difference. That's what I'm seeing these days.
Andy Heise:Yeah. Sure. Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice that you've been given?
Jack DiIanni:The thing is about this is you just have to have the overall look about the business and just know, okay, oh, what what's what are the problems versus what is going well, that kind of thing. Because for instance, here's a here's a thing. Uh we've had two fires in our building. Okay. And both were a stroke of luck. You know, so that kind of thing, you know, that can happen and and mess up a business, you know, that type of thing. These were these were two small little fires and they never did anything expansive at all. And um the the the fireman put them out in a matter of minutes, you know, that kind of thing. Um so there's things like that that you gotta keep focus on, and you gotta always watch like because you have to um ask to see. Not only are you focusing on the business itself, but you gotta think too, like, okay, you have a building. What does it take to keep the building running correctly, that kind of thing? What do you have to fix? What's what gets broken, that type of thing. You know, it's not uh it's not just all about um selling, selling, sells, you know, because there's a lot of things that you end up paying because of what you have to do to keep things going, you know, that kind of thing. And I think the people that would start a business basically have to realize that this is not about just the business. It's about, okay, here's what I'm dealing with all, for instance. Like, you know, for instance, like we own two trucks, you know, two vans. Okay, well, hey, you've got to make sure that because we do lots of deliveries, lots of things like that, you know, that type of thing. Yeah. It's not it's not that you're just doing um one simple thing. No, there's probably some other businesses where there is. Sure. So it just depends on the the the width of you know what you what you're doing in terms of the business. Yeah.
Andy Heise:Yeah. That's right.
Jack DiIanni:Yeah, that's probably the thing that you have to focus on the most. You know, that's great.
Andy Heise:Yeah.
Nick Petrella:It's a great way to end. And Jack, it's it's been great seeing you again, and it's inspiring to hear your enthusiasm for lifelong learning. Thanks for coming on the podcast.
Jack DiIanni:Hey Nick, it's always great hanging out with you. And you and I had fun playing those shows done at the Sunflower Festival those times you I I I got you to come in and play. That's that's when we always had a good time, you know what I mean? That was the kind of thing to do. And we always had fun too talking about how you studied with Bill and stuff like that. Bill Schneiderman, because we knew him, you know what I mean. And he he turned out to be a great friend of ours. You know, that kind of thing. He was very, very helpful too. It was always interesting, you know, hanging out with him and chatting with him and always having good times, you know. And I remember how you told me, oh, I took lessons with him and stuff like that. Yeah, that was that was the way to go. It was a great time. Yeah.
Andy Heise:Jack's pleasure to meet you, and it's been um uh an honor to spend some time with you.
Jack DiIanni:Pleasure to meet you guys. As always, you know, well, I mean not I mean meet meet you, Andy, but and see see Nick, you know, because well, one thing I do at my age, I always miss misspeak like a little bit. I say things backwards sometimes. Get things backwards, you know. No worries. Yep, all good. Thanks, Jack. It's been fun, yes.
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