#372: Rich Simmons (Visual Artist) (pt. 2 of 2)

This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with Rich Simmons. He’s known for blending the rebellious energy of street art with the bold visuals of pop art, into his self-defined genre of Pop Punk Art.

Rich is described as a visionary, a cultural disruptor, and a dynamic communicator. His work resonates with collectors, communities and anyone who believes art can be a catalyst for change.

He’s also the founder of Art is The Cure, a mental health movement he launched in 2008, and Create Scene, a social network for creatives.

Join us to hear Rich’s empowering story—and visit his websites to see his eye-catching art! https://www.richsimmonsart.com/, https://www.artisthecure.org/ and https://createscene.com/

Transcript

Announcer 0:18

Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast, Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion, and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent, or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts, Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.

Andy Heise 1:01

Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise.

Nick Petrella 1:04

And I'm Nick Petrella. We're excited to have British contemporary artist Rich Simmons on the podcast. He's known for blending the rebellious energy of street art with the bold visuals of pop art into his self-defined genre of pop punk art. Rich is described as a visionary, a cultural disruptor, and a dynamic communicator. His work resonates with collectors, communities, and anyone who believes art can be a catalyst for change. He's also the founder of Art is the Cure, a mental health movement he launched in 2008, and Create Scene, a social network for creatives. We'll have Rich's websites in the show notes, so make time to see his eye-catching art and read about all of his initiatives.

Rich Simmons 1:47

Thanks for having me.

Nick Petrella 1:51

So uh Rich, you had mentioned Create Scene. It's a social networking platform for creatives that you launched. And I'm just curious, what did you know about platform development prior to that? And what are you offering that would be of interest to artists?

Rich Simmons 2:09

So I let's go back 15 years. I was doing the Art as the Cure project. I was trying to build a community online of people that I didn't want it to be about me. I wanted it to be a support network where people all over the world could connect, share their stories, support each other. And I got connected to someone who has become my best friend for 15 plus years now, Fraser. He is one of the smartest people I've ever met. And he had built a social network when he was 18. He's a genius. But he's a genius at code. He's not necessarily someone that is going to build a brand and build a community and think outside the box. So we kind of got pushed together and I had a community. I had art as the cure, I had a brand, I had a message. He had the tech. We joined forces and we tried to turn art as the cure into a social networking platform. Unfortunately, due to health, Fraser had to take a step back. I then focused on my art career. I went off and did all these gallery shows and got to live in New York for a little bit and worked on NFTs and collaborating with animators. I've worked in a lot of different creative scenes: music, fashion, design, art, uh, galleries, all of these different things. And when it came to lockdown a few years ago, and a lot of the galleries closed, and a lot of the opportunities went away. How am I going to find the next opportunity? And the way the technology has kind of grown, algorithms are pushing people further apart. It's prioritizing viral content rather than personality or talent. I came from the MySpace generation where you could customize your profile, you could find people, you had top friends, you had to learn code to build your own banners and backgrounds and music. And the people from the MySpace generation went on to become the heads of record labels, successful models, TV presenters, musicians, artists. And when that platform died, other platforms didn't follow suit with the creativity. It was this is how a profile looks, you can't change it. And now that we've got you all on here, this is how the algorithm works because we make more money from this kind of content. So creatives started to go off into their own little pockets. You have designers, you have musicians over there, you have artists over here. And that might be great for designers wanting to find opportunity on a design platform. But it makes it a lot harder for a musician to connect to a graphic designer to do an album cover or do their merchandise. And then you need to find a photographer to go to your gallery show to take photos. Then you want to do a music video, you need a director, and then you might need stylists, camera people, lighting. All of a sudden, all of these different creative scenes have to come together to collaborate. I think that's what's been changing in recent years is the landscape of how artists, creativists, designers, all of these different people need to connect. And the current technologies are pushing them further and further apart. So what would happen if you could build a social networking platform that facilitated creativity, that allowed you to have a customizable profile, so you can feel seen, you can feel like your personality is in your profile design, you can share your brand, you can share your artwork, but then having all of the tools where you could just click into the networking and go show me photographers, show me musicians, show me artists, show me animators, and you can collaborate, find people from different scenes all under one roof. It's gonna allow for people to make friends easier. When I moved to Brighton, I didn't know any street artists, I didn't know a platform where I could go and find street artists. I might post on Instagram or something saying, hey, does anyone know any street artists in Brighton? Less than 1% of people will see that story, and less than 1% of those people might know a street artist in Brighton. The odds are against creatives. So what happens if you strip the algorithms, provide the tools, provide the creativity, provide a place where the next generation and the current generation can have a roadmap. You can join, you can build a fan base, you can make friends, you can learn from people, then you can customize your profile, show your personality, show your art. Then booking tools, marketplace, being able to go from a place of I've left school, I've made a bunch of friends on Create Scene, I'm now doing really well with my graphic design or photography or whatever it might be. Maybe I should start selling my services. Someone local might want to find me and book me to do a photo shoot. And while I've got the photo shoot, I need a model. What models are local? It's just gonna make it so much easy if all of the different creative scenes were on one platform pushing as a collective rather than segregated in their own little niches, and that's that's the goal. How do we bring the creative community together in one place, provide a place where they can feel seen, and that goes back to the art of the cure mentality? Is like when it's just a generic uh profile design on other platforms, you don't get to learn about someone's personality. But going on MySpace and seeing all the different profile designs was exciting. This person's favorite band is the same as mine. In their top friends, they've got this other band. Well, if they like that band, maybe I'll like this band. It was exciting. That excitement has gone, and the landscape of creativity has changed dramatically over the last five to ten years, and it's going to keep changing. There's a stat um about 50% of people that have a regular job over the next 10 years will have some kind of freelance project side hustle on the side because the cost of living is going up, wages are not matching it. So that person that maybe works as an accountant during the week, they might DJ at weddings on a weekend. Right. Well, they think they need to be discovered. Just because it might not be a viral, worthy thing on TikTok or Instagram doesn't mean they can't be the best wedding photographer or DJ in the world.

Nick Petrella 10:07

And certainly artists have portfolio.

Collaboration Without Algorithmic Walls

Rich Simmons 10:10

Exactly. So that's what create scene is, that's what I'm trying to build from everything I've learned over the last 20 years of being a creative, working in different scenes, understanding the struggles, the hurdles as a courier, as a mental health thing. There's a lot of problems that create scene can solve. Yeah, I mean the tools that we've built over the last few years, it's just me and Fraser. I'm designing, I'm problem solving, he's coding up the things that hey, what if it could do this? What if it could do that? Learning from other artists, learning from other creatives. What is it you need? How would you like to present your brand, your art, your creativity? Apply all of that in a way that doesn't play on the viral-worthy algorithms of other platforms.

Andy Heise 11:28

Yeah, and that that's what I'm saying. I love what you said right at the beginning of this. Was you know, the so the algorithm is is your own personal curiosity and creativity, right? We have that, and let us let us explore the network using that algorithm versus being forced and fed content based on to your point, probably probably uh motivated by um you know clicks and revenue and and and money, right? And advertising.

Rich Simmons 11:54

Yeah, as I said earlier, my motivation is how can I inspire the most people possible in my lifetime? And if I can provide the tools to build a big enough audience through this, then I've reached a lot of people.

Andy Heise 12:14

Yeah.

Rich Simmons 12:15

But it's giving those people the tools that they can have the same thing. It was the same with art as the cure. Yeah, it's go to a school, it's tell them this formula, teach them this message. Now it's up to you to go and inspire your friends. Right. Now it's up to the school to teach art as the cure, put that in the curriculum, realize the importance of it. Yeah, this isn't me trying to be a billionaire. This is me trying to leave the creative industry, the art world, yeah, in a better place than I found it because art saved my life, and I feel like I owe it something.

Andy Heise 12:57

Yeah. So it throughout our conversation here and um, you know, doing reading up on all the things that you do, um, it strikes me that you operated an interesting intersection of sort of this punk rock culture, um, commercialism, as well as social advocacy, as we've we've been talking about all three of these things. Do those identities ever feel uh conflicting with one another? And um or or do you see them as mutually reinforcing?

Punk Ethos Meets Business And Advocacy

Rich Simmons 13:26

I think they all require you to think outside the box. They all require you to approach it in a way that is um how can I say this? You have to approach them as problems. They're all different problems to solve. But if you can have that mentality of how to problem solve, how to think outside the box, how to reach the biggest audience, then you can overcome whichever one it is. It's not teaching you how to problem solve how to cut the best stencil, right? Teaching people, teaching kids how to think outside the box can apply to so many different things in their life. So whether it's um how to sell the most art, how to get into a gallery, how to grow a business, how to do different things, that critical thinking, how to think outside the box, is uh is very important.

Andy Heise 14:38

I like what you said about you said like how to sell the most art. And and to as you said that, I was thinking, well, yeah, I mean that the solution to that problem isn't just a business solution, or it's not just an art solution, or it's not just a a social social problem, right? It's it's it's a combination of all of those different things. And um, you know, you may need to learn some new tools or utilize some more tools from one area than another, but nonetheless, it's you can't you can't think about how do I sell more work without thinking about it more holistically.

Rich Simmons 15:09

Yeah, I mean, every gallery is different, but just because let's say you have a gallery show with someone, you don't sell any paintings, or not enough to justify working with them, doesn't mean you're a bad artist. That gallery might just have more success selling a different style. Their clientele might just prefer photography or sculpture at that time, not pop art. Yeah, go to a different gallery, same artwork, you could have a sell-out show. So not everything is a failure. Yeah, it's just maybe it's in the wrong place, maybe it's the wrong time, maybe it's the wrong colour. Like I said earlier with the t-shirt. Right, man. Yeah, the wrong finish. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. It doesn't mean it's the wrong piece. It might be the wrong time, the wrong location, the wrong whatever it might be, problem solve it. Yeah, analyze it. Why didn't this work here? Don't go, it didn't work, I'm a failure, completely change, give up. Yeah, it's adapt, learn, replace it, recolour it, whatever it might be, yeah, solve the problem.

Andy Heise 16:28

Resilience. Yeah.

Rich Simmons 16:30

Exactly.

Andy Heise 16:31

Yeah.

Rich Simmons 16:31

It's if you gave up after every failing, every piece that didn't sell, no one would be successful.

Nick Petrella 16:42

Yeah.

Rich Simmons 16:42

I mean, there there's huge entrepreneurs that have failed big time. Steve Jobs got kicked out of Apple. He didn't go and cry. He went and built Pixar. And he built one of the best storytelling tools we've ever seen.

Nick Petrella 17:04

Yeah.

Rich Simmons 17:04

And then he went back to Apple and he got his redemption story.

Andy Heise 17:07

Yeah.

Rich Simmons 17:08

A lot of people would have given up.

Nick Petrella 17:10

That's right. I agree.

Rich Simmons 17:11

Yep.

Nick Petrella 17:13

Rich, you mentioned uh how to get into a gallery, and as you mentioned before earlier in the in the interview, you're being sold exclusively through Castle Fine Art, and that's a leading UK arts retailer. Can you walk us through the process for artists who are looking for representation?

Rich Simmons 17:34

It's not as straightforward as it might seem.

Nick Petrella 17:39

Okay.

Rich Simmons 17:40

I've had 30 gallery shows around the world before I joined Castle. During lockdown, a lot of the galleries closed. I pulled a lot of my artwork back. I wanted a reset. I applied to galleries all over the world with the CV that I have, with the gallery shows, with the artwork, with the sales, all of that you would think a gallery would jump at that chance. Yeah. I got rejected by 90% of them. Because it wasn't the right fit. Or maybe they already had a street artist or a pop artist and they were loyal to them. Doesn't mean I'm a bad artist. Right. It just means that their roster might be full. Or they're not looking for that kind of thing, or their clientele wants something different at the moment. It doesn't mean that no one wants me anymore. It was this castle gallery that they came down to my studio. They saw that I was kind of starting up this art journey again after lockdown. I didn't paint for two, three years. Everything was in storage because my studio was falling down. Moved down to Brighton. It's hard to find a studio where you can go paint. Where you can do that. A lot, there's a lot of office space. They're not going to let me paint in there. So finding an art studio is difficult. So I didn't paint for two, three years. By the time I did get a studio, I didn't know what I wanted to do next. I'd had success in certain styles, doing Superman Kissing Batman went viral. Doing The Girls with the Glasses, the reflection series. That was hyper successful. Sold thousands of NFTs of it, did it on the side of giant buildings. Wow. But what's next? How do you stay ahead of the curve? How do you challenge yourself as a storyteller? During those two, three years when I wasn't painting, I was building creating. I was starting the technology business. I was applying all of the business tools I'd learned and all the creative things. How can I solve a different problem? I wrote my first book. I I applied my storytelling from art, and I challenged myself to do it with words. As I said earlier, Stanley is another hero of mine. I've done the art thing, I've invented things like Da Vinci. Maybe I can tell stories. Maybe I can be the next Stanley as well, or a percentage of him. So it was it was continually problem-solving, challenging myself, and then realizing I still had something left in the tank. I still felt I had enough stories to tell, enough talent that it was worth rolling the dice, getting a studio, putting myself back out there. Castle Gallery saw that. The director saw it online, he was a fan of my artwork, he asked for a studio visit within a year of that. I'm now exhibiting with them in over 30 galleries around the UK. If he hadn't seen that post, if I hadn't put myself back out there, I wouldn't have had the opportunity. It was me promoting it, marketing myself, realizing that I had to get my brand back out there. But also, how do I raise the bar? Don't just go back to the same old artwork as before, reinvent it, reinvent myself, tell new stories, learn how to be a better storyteller. All of these different things have got me back into this position. But for other artists, as I said earlier, apply to lots of galleries. Because just because you get rejections from some of them doesn't mean you're a bad artist. There's just a lot of people competing for your spot. So be better than them. Work harder than them. Think outside the box, be more be more original. Do the things that's going to make you stand out. Too many artists see a Banksy. And go with Banksy selling artwork, I can as well. And they copy Banksy. And you can't copy Banksy without people going, that looks like a terrible Banksy. Right. So learn what Banksy's done well. The storytelling, the accessibility, the street art, the stunts, all of the things that made him popular and become one of the biggest artists we've ever seen. And do your version of it. Think outside the box. Think differently. Because you're not the only person applying for that gallery. That's right. So yeah, don't give up. Just hustle. Hustle hard. Keep pushing. Keep challenging yourself. And at some point the right door will open for you. Yeah. Very instructive.

Andy Heise 22:53

Yeah, absolutely. I'm wondering if there's ever been any instances where like collectors or galleries or institutions maybe try to separate sort of the your artwork from sort of all of the message and the stories that go behind it that we've been talking about here today. Has it ever been tried to pull apart? And I'm just curious, if so, how did you how did you deal with that?

Rich Simmons 23:15

Yes. It's it's a problem that a lot of artists face when you have to balance storytelling and pushing buttons, pushing the boundary, poking fun at things, challenging preconceptions of things, and then selling a piece of artwork that's going to be in someone's home. Not everyone wants the the political piece or the the piece that pokes fun at something or the controversial thing in their home because they have kids or they have friends or they have people that might be more conservative they don't want to uh offend. They might enjoy the piece on the street that causes controversy, but then do they actually want that in their home? And that's the balance that commercial galleries have. Their business is to sell a product. That's right. The challenge of the artist is to be adaptable and know where to tell the right story. So if I have an idea for something that might be more controversial, do it on the street first. Test it out there, make a video of it, do it for myself, and then if it resonates enough that someone wants it in the home, apply it to a canvas, make it a sellable product for someone, and then the gallery can sell it for you. But then there's also the challenge of going too safe, going too commercial, and falling into this generic trap that a lot of artists face where everything ends up looking the same. So I think there's a battle that an artist has to face. A battle with the gallery, a battle with collectors. A lot of collectors just want a big pop of colour in the home. They don't want to think. If they don't get the message or the idea behind a piece, because maybe it's an intelligent piece or something that intimidates them or challenges them, if it makes them feel stupid because they don't get it, they're not going to put it in their home and be reminded of that. But then also there's a responsibility on the artist as well. If an artist gets arrested for something, or it turns out that they're involved in drugs or something nefarious, or they they abuse someone, whatever it might be, there's examples throughout art history of that. Does someone want that energy in their home?

Andy Heise 26:06

Right.

Rich Simmons 26:07

Or do they want the artist that's going into schools, that's promoting mental health, that's building technology, that's trying to inspire the next generation? Maybe they want the painting of that person because it makes them go, I'm gonna do something positive today. I'm gonna try and change someone's life, I'm gonna try and inspire someone. And then it's not just it's not just the art, it's the energy of the artist within that piece. They're buying the they're being the artist. The painting is the product, yeah. But it's the artist's energy, the story, the narrative. I've been in galleries when people have called up and said, I want to buy a Banksy. And the gallery said, Okay, we've got three in stock, £100,000 each. And the collector said, I'll take them. And the gallery said, Well, do you actually want to know which pieces they are? No, I just want a Banksy. Because they want Banksy in the collection, they want a piece of the mystery, it's like a piece of the jigsaw puzzle of Banksy. They want a warhole, they don't care which one, they just want a warhole in the collection, they want a Hearst. Because they're buying the name, because they're buying the artist's story, what that artist represents, what they've brought to the art world, what they represent in this moment in time, or from previous generations. That's something people have to consider as well. Yep. Because you're not just competing with other artists, you're competing with legacies.

Nick Petrella 27:44

Yep.

Rich Simmons 27:45

Um, so there is a constant battle between the collector, the gallery, the artist, the storyteller, whatever it is. Yeah. You need to be adaptable.

Nick Petrella 28:02

You touched upon pricing, and uh listeners of the podcast know that I'm very interested in how visual artists price their works. What's your approach to pricing, your art, and has that changed over the years?

Rich Simmons 28:17

So a lot of it is market analysis. It's looking at what other artists are doing in a similar style, in a similar market, in a similar size, and going, okay, it's between let's say ten and twenty thousand dollars for a pop-up painting in 48 by 48 inches, whatever it might be. Yeah, okay, that person has sold a lot of them at the 10,000 pound mark, and that person has maybe only sold one at the 20,000 pound mark. So, do I want to sell lots of pieces at 10 grand or a couple at a higher price? So finding your position on that spectrum between commercial viability, between affordability, not pricing yourself above people just because you think you're better than them. Right. You can't go on ego. I think I'm a better artist than a lot of people, and a lot of those people are selling for a million-dollar canvas. Do I think my work is worthy of a million dollars? Probably. Is the market gonna buy it for a million dollars? No, because I haven't got 10 million followers, and Kim Kardashian doesn't have a piece on her wall, and Pharrell Williams isn't asking me to collaborate. So all of these outside things the watch deal, the clothing deal, the celebrities, what circles you move in, artists can charge more because they think they're worthy. I'm not at that position yet.

Nick Petrella 30:04

So I imagine it changed when you were first starting out, first started to get some notoriety, and now uh you're with a gallery, right? Castle Fine Art. I imagine they have a say in that price. How much of a say do they have in what it's going to be sold at? 50-50. You say you know, they wanna they want to uh set this for X number of pounds. Do you just say, yeah, let's do that, or do you ever get into a situation where, oh, I think it's less, I think it's more it's a team effort and it has to be that way because they're the ones paying the rent on the galleries, they're paying the staff, they're paying the sales team, they're paying to market you, to frame it.

Rich Simmons 30:56

Yeah. So they have to have some level of control, but at the same time uh pricing, exactly.

Nick Petrella 31:06

Yeah.

Rich Simmons 31:07

But they can also go on what my previous market has been. Sure. They can then compare it to what their market is, where the current value is. If the market is down, don't overprice it. Yeah, maybe go in, introduce a new artist, do it at a slightly lower price, prove that it sells, sell a bunch of them at 20% lower than market value.

Nick Petrella 31:34

Yeah.

Rich Simmons 31:35

And then the next collection is market value. It's jumped up 20%. So those people that bought it at 20% below market value, they've just got a bump. Then the next the next wave comes in and says, I should have got one of those first pieces. I'll I can see the trajectory.

Nick Petrella 31:55

Yeah, yeah.

Rich Simmons 31:55

I'll get one now. Because in a year's time, there might be another 10-20% bump.

Andy Heise 32:01

Yeah.

Rich Simmons 32:01

So it's working with a gallery to understand market conditions, what their collectors are comfortable selling. They wouldn't have signed me if they didn't have faith that my work could sell with them, that their collectors would like it, certainly. That they would take all these paintings, invest in framing, invest in shipping them out to over 30 galleries, catalogues, training the sales team, all of the different things. Window vinyls. My name was on over 30 galleries around the UK at the same time. That's crazy to me. Because I still see myself as that 20-year-old kid in a warehouse in South London not selling paintings, wishing I could have that. Now a gallery is willing to invest in putting my name on their windows all over the country. If I come in and make demands, they're not going to want to work with me.

Nick Petrella 32:58

Yeah.

Rich Simmons 32:59

It has to be um logically a team effort. Great.

Andy Heise 33:08

Was there a point where um having to think about pricing your work and selling your work, did that cause any sort of shift in how you thought of yourself as a creator, as an artist?

Rich Simmons 33:20

Yeah, I mean when you go from never selling a painting, doing street art, doing it in people's bedrooms, painting on people's t-shirts, doing it at corporate events, right, to then being in opera gallery, which is one of the world's biggest gallery groups, on the back of doing that Will and Kate painting, and they've priced my work based on their market analysis, where they thought I was at that time. You could buy a small car for the price that they were listing it at. £5,000, you could buy a secondhand car. All of a sudden, I'm now in a position where people are willing to spend that much money to put me in their home. The mentality shifts because I now have to take myself more seriously. I have to up my game, I have to every piece I do have to be at that level. I could I could fob it off and do a quick, cheap version of it, but I would be cheating the people spending and investing in me. Now I have to wake up earlier, I have to train harder, I have to cut stencils better, I have to be a better storyteller, better business person to justify that a gallery has put that faith in me. People are willing to put that money into those paintings. I can't go out and I don't know, party and get photographed in the paparazzi doing cocaine. I mean, I've never touched a drug, I've never held a cigarette, I don't drink, because that's part of the responsibility of people who investing me. People are inviting me into their homes to hang my work, people are inviting me into schools to inspire their kids. If I was some weird, nefarious, drug partying rock star kind of artist, is a school gonna want me in?

Andy Heise 35:27

Right.

Rich Simmons 35:27

Yeah, is someone gonna want me in their home if the energy's off? No. So there's a responsibility on me to be the best artist I can be, the best man I can be, the best business person, creative, storyteller, everything.

Nick Petrella 35:49

You don't you don't have to answer this. Uh imposter syndrome comes up a lot in this podcast. I my hunch is, and again, you don't have to answer this. My hunch is you've probably never had that based on the way your career came to fruition.

Rich Simmons 36:07

There's definitely been moments.

Nick Petrella 36:09

Yeah, okay.

Rich Simmons 36:10

When when you go from living in a warehouse on your own, covered in graffiti, doing small jobs, struggling to pay the rent, never selling a painting, and then you're in a gallery show with Banksy, hanging opposite a Picasso, all of these different artists that I looked up to, and now I've got a piece on the wall because I told the right joke at the right time and made people laugh and captured a moment, and now I'm in a gallery with these people that I look up to and admire. Yeah, of course, you're gonna have some level of imposter syndrome, they're gonna find me out at some point. That goes back to the responsibility of you're now at that level. So act like it.

New Projects And Final Advice

Nick Petrella 37:03

Yeah, love it. So before Andy kicks off our final three questions, do you have any fun projects on the horizon that that we didn't discuss?

Rich Simmons 37:13

I mean, we've talked about create scene, there's a lot happening with that. That's fun. Again, it's still early days. The more people that join, the more people that hear about create scene and start posting and sharing it, that's going to become so much more fun as more people get to share it with me. That's exciting. Building a YouTube channel, being a storyteller in a different way, being in front of a camera, teaching people how to make art, how to explore different creative scenes, being an educator, being a narrator, being a presenter, that's exciting because it's peeling back the curtain a little bit. And uh paying forward some of those skills that I've had and I've learned over the last 20 years to the next generation in the same way that Create Scene is, and the same way that Art Secure is, I feel a responsibility to pass it on, to teach how to paint something, how to cut a stencil, make people excited for art. That's that's incredibly fun. Just setting up a camera in the studio and allowing people to see what I get up to in there. Yeah, yeah, and then being a storyteller and being able to write. I wrote my first book during lockdown. I've got a couple of sequels lined up. I haven't published it. It's I wrote it for me. It's the it's the superhero origin story that I wanted to read. At some point, there will be the right time, the right market to publish that. People will get to experience my creativity in a different way. But at the moment, that's a a passion project, but maybe a publisher will pop up at some point and give me an opportunity. We'll see. Yeah.

Andy Heise 39:08

Well, Rich, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions. And the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an arts entrepreneur?

Rich Simmons 39:19

Don't take no for an answer because if you feel you have something of value to put into the world, one no from someone shouldn't shape that destiny and stop you from doing that. Learning to say yes to as many opportunities as possible, and then getting to a position where it's important to say no. I think that yes-no balance when you're starting out, say yes to as many things as possible because you'll learn good and bad things. It's important to learn from both. Don't just focus on I sold a painting, that was great. Learn from the person that says I didn't like that because the colour didn't work for me. Learn from that, and then you'll sell two paintings next time. I think too many people focus solely on the wins when there's more value sometimes in the losses. So yeah, learn when to say yes, learn when to say no, understand your value.

Nick Petrella 40:35

What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?

Rich Simmons 40:42

Well, I'm trying to do that with creating is I've learned over the last 20 years how difficult it is to be a creative. I've worked with people, I'm friends with people from so many different creative industries, and it's difficult across the board. It's segregated, it's in these little pockets. We need to build more bridges. We need to understand the importance of collaboration because you can't do it yourself. Sometimes you need someone with a different skill set to educate you or inspire you or collaborate with you in some capacity. So building bridges to other people, to other creative scenes, opening your mind to different ways things work, I think is important. As I've said, I've learned from business people as much as I've learned from artists. I've learned from Da Vinci as much as I've learned from Banksy. I've learnt from musicians and storytellers and animators and film directors how to create paintings. It's if you just stay in one lane, it becomes very boring. So Create Scene is maybe a catalyst for more people having access to more kinds of creativity, more kinds of creative people, building those networks, finding those mentors, getting inspired from different scenes, getting excited. That's what it's about. The world needs more of that. So create scene is potentially the great bridge builder.

Andy Heise 42:36

Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've been given?

Rich Simmons 42:43

There's no such thing as failure. Just because you fail, I've said this earlier. It doesn't mean that you're wrong. It just means that maybe you have to approach that problem next time with a different angle, with a different run-up. So there's no such thing as failure. There's only opportunities to learn. And if you're willing to learn and you're willing to overcome those hurdles, the hurdles don't need to scare you anymore.

Nick Petrella 43:21

Yeah. Rich, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. It's empowering to hear your story and how your inquisitive approach to creativity and not being encumbered by creative doctrines has driven your success.

Rich Simmons 43:35

Thank you for having me. It's been uh exciting to talk about art and creativity and business and everything, and hopefully, it inspires at least one listener to go and have their own journey to start their own adventure as a creative. And I look forward to connecting with them on Create Scene at some point and seeing their journey on there. Great.

Announcer 43:56

Thanks so much, Rich. Thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please subscribe. Visit Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast.com to learn more about our guest and how you can help support artists, the arts, and this podcast.