#391: John Sebastian Vera (Trombonist) (pt. 1 of 2)

This week on the podcast is part one of our interview with John Sebastian Vera.  He’s the Principal Trombonist of the Pittsburgh Opera; Head of Brass & Percussion and lecturer of music entrepreneurship at the Cleveland Institute of Music; adjunct Professor of Trombone at Duquesne University; Co-Founder of the Third Coast Trombone Retreat; and co-host of the Trombone Retreat podcast listened to in over 130 countries.

His portfolio career also includes performing with many orchestras, being an artist for Thein Instruments, and he’s the designer of the JSV signature trombone mouthpiece sold through Houghton Horns.

Make sure you check out Sebastian's interview to hear his 360-degree approach to the music business! 

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Announcer 0:18

Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast, Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion, and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent, or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts, Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.

Andy Heise 1:00

Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise.

Nick Petrella 1:05

And I'm Nick Petrella. Joining us today is Sebastian Vera. He's the principal trombonist of the Pittsburgh Opera, head of brass and percussion, and lecturer of music entrepreneurship at the Cleveland Institute of Music, and adjunct professor of trombone at Duquesne University. He's also the co-founder of the Third Coast Trombone Retreat, an elite pre-professional program, and co-host of the Trombone Retreat podcast, listened to in over 130 countries. In addition to the Pittsburgh Opera, Sebastian has performed with many orchestras including Dallas, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra. His portfolio career includes being an artist for Tyne Instruments, and he's the designer of the JSV signature trombone mouthpiece sold through Houghton Horns. Make sure you check out Sebastian's socials in the show notes to keep tabs on all of his activities. Thanks for coming on the podcast, Sebastian.

John Sebastian Vera 1:58

Good to see you, Andy. Nice to meet you, Nick.

Nick Petrella 2:02

So

Why A Portfolio Career Emerges

Nick Petrella 2:03

you have quite the assortment of activities in your career. What prompted you to pursue a portfolio career rather than say only play in the opera and call it a day?

John Sebastian Vera 2:13

Good question. Um I would say, I wouldn't say I exactly pursued a portfolio career at first. I don't think I even quite knew what that was. I think it kind of just developed. And I think it it developed out of a couple ways. You know, first of all, the opera is not a job that's year-round. So if I wasn't doing a lot of other things, I'd be incredibly bored. Um and also I think I've just always had the mindset of I I enjoy projects, maybe to a fault, but I I love doing lots of things. I like the variety of things. Um, I like working with lots of different people. Um, there's definitely benefits to having that one like really awesome, secure, safe job. But um I don't know. I just I I like the possibility of of always having opportunities to do different things.

Nick Petrella 3:07

Yeah. And to your point, because it's not a year-round gig, you have the time, freedom, and flexibility to pursue other things.

John Sebastian Vera 3:15

Yeah, it kind of worked out that way in a nice way, um, by giving you that kind of flexibility. You have that that one, you know, in a portfolio career, you can have core stuff, right? That's like your steady stuff that's always there, like your teaching job or your performing job where you have tenure, and that can be nice. That can be the backbone. Um, and then you can build your creative things around it. And, you know, the cool thing about a portfolio, just like a stock portfolio, if one thing's going well or you really enjoy one thing, maybe you're gonna buy more stock in that. If if one thing's not serving you anymore, you're not feeling as valued, you're not enjoying it as much anymore, or it's just not working logistically, maybe you, you know, downsize that a little bit. And you can that's the flexibility and the best part about the portfolio career. Yeah, love that analogy.

Andy Heise 4:03

Yeah, and I think you know, the other piece of that is and and you described it this way. Um, you didn't really talk about it in terms of revenue or money or income. You talked about it in terms of things that you want to do and things you like to do. Uh, but of course, it is a little bit it's it's balancing both of those things, right? Um, it's not it's not just the ability to do fun projects, it's also the ability to diversify your income streams.

John Sebastian Vera 4:27

Right. And it's easy at this point in my career to be able to say that when you first start. And what I encourage young people, I mean, you especially as a musician, you got to be saying yes to everything. And first of all, you're still figuring out what you want to do, what you enjoy. So much of my career, I didn't know I enjoyed it until I started it. So you you need to be gathering at that point in your career. But once you really understand what you're enjoying, that's when you can start. I mean, the privilege of being able to say no to things as a musician is is a privilege.

Andy Heise 5:01

Yeah.

John Sebastian Vera 5:01

Um, but you got to earn that and you gotta you gotta get there. Um, so yeah, the money obviously you got to get to a certain baseline to to have a roof and eat food, which I'm a big fan of. Yeah. Um, but yeah, the fun creative stuff is is what we're all shooting for.

Andy Heise 5:18

Sure, absolutely, yeah. And so one of the ways um we're gonna unpack all a lot of the different uh things that you do uh that make up your portfolio career as we go through this conversation.

Chamber Music As DIY Music Business

Andy Heise 5:30

But some of that is uh playing in in chamber ensembles, um, as you've done in the past. And um what is it uh that playing in a chamber ensemble teaches you about the music business that maybe playing in more institutional like opera uh orchestra doesn't?

John Sebastian Vera 5:47

I love this question. And I think chamber music is often something music majors, you know, they're like, okay, I have to do it. I have a chamber music credit, I have to satisfy a certain amount of things. There are some musicians that are in school that are just like, this is what I want my career to be. But I think I was one of those people that was like, okay, this is fun, okay, brass matet's cool, but like I'm here to win a job in an orchestra because that's the career path. Yeah. Um, but if you're brave enough and creative enough, chamber music can be one of the most fulfilling things you can do. And you know, but that being said, you put more work into it. But by putting more work into it, every little victory, every little creative decision is yours and amazing. And little dopamine hits everything time something goes well. So substantively, when you're in an orchestra, you have a marketing department, you have an admin department, you have a music director, people are choosing the repertoire. Um there's people marketing for you, um, branding for you, whether it's how you want to be branded or not, that's how they're doing it. Um, they choose the repertoire, your schedule. So everything, you kind of just you gotta be in shape and show up and know your music and be a good colleague, and you'll have a nice career, and it can be great, especially if you're an orchestra you like, which you know it's that's that's tough to find as well. But in a chamber music, you're the one figuring out your brand identity, you're the one doing all the marketing and booking gigs and meeting with composers, which can sound scary to people, but that also, in the right mindset, can give you such freedom to do really cool stuff. Chamber music is the future of classical music in a lot of ways for for how flexible ensembles can be, how nimble a smaller group can be, how many different venues they can perform in, which I love alternate venue concerts, which is what young professionals love to experience. Um, so I think there's so many possibilities, and I love doing it. And I encourage students to like, in addition, say you win a job in orchestra, awesome, you know, and I'm around a lot of talented young students, and a lot of them are winning jobs while they're in school. Um, but this can be an outlet, and you might want an outlet after you have that safe thing.

Nick Petrella 8:16

Yeah, you know, and I just want to uh emphasize one thing that you had mentioned about chamber music becoming the future of classical music. What was it? About 15 years ago, I spoke with a venue manager, so a big hall that they bring orchestras in and whatnot, jazz, everything. And he said he could had just come back from a concert or a conference, excuse me, and they're talking about just that, that chamber music is going to be because they had lost a lot of money. They brought in a foreign orchestra with a soloist and lost multiple thousands of dollars. And what they said was, you know, it's the it's the organizations, the the ensembles like Room Full of Teeth or the Silk Road Project that is going to be pushed forward just for finances.

John Sebastian Vera 9:04

Yeah, I mean, in even in opera, like the majority of new operas, um, strong majority of new operas that we do, and we do a lot of new ones, are for that just scaled down ensemble, which you know, as musician, I want to work with all my colleagues. I want everyone to be working all the time. So that it's it's a con inner conflict at times. But when I'm a young composer, like I I would fully understand that you know, an opera, knowing that they can put your opera on for a lot lower cost when you're not La Traviata, you know, you don't have a name for yourself yet, they know it's less of a risk. Um, you they can do it in their smaller venues, like it's gonna win a lot of the time unless you're these major, major opera houses. So it's like it's happening whether we like it or not, and being adaptable is important. Yeah.

Andy Heise 10:00

And I something that you know, I don't I don't have any chamber uh ensemble experience. Um, but um something like playing bands, sure, same thing.

John Sebastian Vera 10:08

Yeah, well chamberly.

Andy Heise 10:10

Okay, so so this is but okay, so here it is. Most of the bands that I've played in are like we write our own original music. Uh so we don't have to worry about licensing, right? Uh or or or finding composers and working out a deal or debuting new people, like we're we do our own stuff. But uh so as a chamber ensemble, not only are you you have to select your programming, but you also have to think about the the the rights and the performing rights and those sorts of things for those pieces.

John Sebastian Vera 10:38

Yeah, um, I found working with composers is the biggest life force to getting more work. Yeah. Um, because often, you know, there was no shortage of talented composers um that need opportunities. So often you reach out to them and they have this piece they want you at the very least, you can read it if it's like impossible to play, or you can work with them, you can help them. But a lot of the times you get these amazing pieces that, you know, first of all, maybe you don't even need to commission it because they just want to get their work out there and an awesome recording is amazing for them. But they'll often be submitting to concert series and competitions and be like, hey, I just won this thing, can you perform this live? And there's artist fees. Um so we usually didn't get stuck in any licensing things because they they could just you know submit programs and and get funded for that. Um, so there was definitely a need, and you know, I was in a a professional uh a chamber, uh trombone quartet for for about nine years, and we had management, we traveled around the country. Um, and that was working with composers, they were so excited to work with unique ensembles that gotcha hadn't been explored that much with insane range and color and dynamic possibilities and expressive capabilities. Um, a little biased towards the trombone, if you can't tell. But um trombone percussion, by the way, is one of my favorite combos, and I think there should be lots more of it. I've played a few pieces. Yeah. We'll have to yeah, we'll have to talk. Do you have the other matching part to this stick? Yeah.

Nick Petrella 12:18

Yeah, that's the would be a perfect match. There we go. He has one half. We're on video, so that didn't work.

Andy Heise 12:27

A duet with trombone and single clave.

John Sebastian Vera 12:32

You're just like hitting the air.

Andy Heise 12:34

That was that would be no noise. You're tapping the trombone, the the bell of the that would be the least I've ever traveled with.

Nick Petrella 12:41

Actually. You know, but to your point, working with composers, I used to do a ton of that early on. And you know, you have two people pulling in this, pulling and pushing in the same direction. Because, you know, I actually got one gig once where somebody says, you know, hey, I just got this piece and I have a performance, I have a dick. Can you play? Right? And so they're always looking for people to champion their music and you develop friendships over it. And yeah, it's it's just I think it's young people should be doing that, in my opinion.

John Sebastian Vera 13:12

Helping them. Do it while you're in school. You have composition students that are begging to have these pieces. And it's an opportunity to learn how to speak to a composer and communicate, and it's an opportunity for the composer to understand how your instrument works. You're helping them move forward art for your instrument. And as someone who plays an instrument who didn't get a ton written for it, historically, you could use all of that we can get. Yeah.

Andy Heise 13:41

So the the chain the chamber ensemble is the garage band of classical music. Wow. Right? Wow. That is that way we're going. I like it.

Nick Petrella 13:51

Yeah. Some might, yep. Some might not.

Andy Heise 13:55

Or the yeah, whatever. The DIY or the punk band of classical music. All right. That's right. Enough

Networking Built On Real Relationships

Andy Heise 14:02

of that.

Nick Petrella 14:02

Well, you know, it does segue into the next question because it's what you're talking about is networking, right? And I I find it interesting that students I speak with, they they find networking as a difficult task. So you freelance quite a bit, or at least you did. What's your approach to networking?

John Sebastian Vera 14:19

Yeah, well, you know, I'll be one of those people that that says that I hate the word networking, um, because it's just like, oh, I'm doing this thing that I feel like maybe is natural to me. Um, but you know, my whole career's been built on relationships and how I was raised is the single most important thing is how you treat people. Um, whether you know you can get something from them or not. Um, you know, when you're in a position where maybe you can be able to offer something to someone, you can sense that a mile away when someone's treating you like they want something from you versus just genuinely being interested. And so I don't know. I've I'm naturally attracted to people that are doing interesting things and brave and excited about creating and having energy. And so I just want to surround myself with people like that as much as possible. If there ends up being a chance to work together, cool, awesome. I think there's literally nothing better than working with your friends and someone you can trust and have those hard conversations with and have all the joys together of success. Um, you know, I run my trombone festival with one of my best friends, Nick. Um, and that's that's really cool and it takes effort. But yeah, as far as you know, networking's broad, you know, um, especially, you know, you guys are both uh professors of you know this age group. You're you're seeing the social skills maybe dwindle a little bit um at times from you know how technology is um progressing and how we communicate and just face-to-face conversations. It's like things aren't gonna happen for you. You know, you have to put yourself out there and you have to support people. Um, go to your friends' concerts, congratulate them when they are successful, like be happy for people and just be a person in in the world that you know thinks bigger than that, and those things just will come to you, in my experience.

Nick Petrella 16:37

Yeah. So you're you're basically following the golden rule, right?

Andy Heise 16:40

Yeah. Okay. I had a guest speaker in my class um towards the end of the semester, and she she she's an amazing like at marketing and social media and that sort of thing. And so that was the topic that she sort of presented on. But when it came time to have for like discussion, Q ⁇ A stuff, it was all about the the students' questions were all about like these in-person networking type of things. Like they just had all of these very basic questions about um what does it mean to go to a an an event and try to meet people, like you know, just like because that's one person that um the the guest because she's she's a phenomenal at that as well. She's just the person in the room that everybody knows and talks to, right? So uh the students they they really uh uh uh asked a lot of questions about what's that like and how do I do that? So yeah, so real. Everything you just said. It is, yeah. And and it's to your point, it's something they don't you know that I I mean I remember being in that position, but too, but but also the generationally, I think you're right. Um there's something uh different about this current group of students.

John Sebastian Vera 17:51

Yeah, I think you gotta get to the big picture. I think if you you're gonna be nervous if you show up and be like, this is an important opportunity for me. I need to meet these people. Oh, I know that person works there and can help me do this, and I need to make sure I I appear this way and I say this thing. It's absolutely that's you're not gonna you're first of all, that's gonna make you really anxious and nervous. And as someone who is definitely experienced, I'm a natural introvert, so like I've had to really practice these things. But at the end of the day, it's like we're all humans that want to have a good time and feel good and be happy and laugh. Yeah. And just taking it not too seriously, like you know, I met you at that the entrepreneurship conference, I didn't know a single person there. And I was just like, okay, there's such a wealth of knowledge around me. This is really neat to finally talk to other people that do this. I know I don't know everything. Um, I have no expectations, just like, hey, let's have a drink and and hang out.

Andy Heise 18:48

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that was that was one of her responses was uh, you know, it's it's the person first, it's not the thing that you want or need or would like to get from the person. It's it's it's it's making the connection with the human first, and then as the relationship goes, you can start to you know probe those things.

John Sebastian Vera 19:08

That's the thing. Everyone has a everyone has a story, as you guys know as interviewers, and getting past that initial surface small talk and just really like trying to connect, that's like my favorite thing. That's like my default setting. Because I, you know, the small talk is just so on the surface, and I get real bored real quick. And I was like, I want to know what like what do you think about stuff, you know?

Andy Heise 19:31

Yeah, right.

Nick Petrella 19:31

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I I will before we go on, I just I want to say because I used to again work music products industry and and when you meet young people almost I'd say a high percentage, not a hundred percent, but pretty close. When you meet someone, they they give you the resume. And it's just it's kind of it used to be cringe worthy. And then when you see the people, when you're talking with people that you see on the magazines or you know who these people are, they want to talk about your kids. They want to talk about their kids or what what's going on. They don't want to talk, you know, they don't care what you did, what gig you played last week. And so I think that if is another tip I I would give somebody, it's just like, hey, go easy, it's just you know, yeah, don't force it.

John Sebastian Vera 20:16

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, you f you living in New York City, that was that was one of the biggest things. I lived there for a decade, and you just people would find some way in the first like two minutes of the conversation just subtly slipping in, like what Broadway show they're playing lately. And it it it starts to become like an in this insecurity, you know. And if you think about people that are really secure in what they do and happy with what they do, yeah, they don't need to prove it, but at the same time, I understand because it's like a survival there.

Nick Petrella 20:46

But you're trying to get on that ladder because you can't go up the ladder until you get on the ladder. And if you know they think you're a gatekeeper, whoever that is, right?

Andy Heise 20:56

And not you know, we need to we have other questions to talk about here. But but no, but but to uh on that point is like but if your entire existence focuses on like this thing, like being really this this one thing is the only thing you have in your life, like that's not interesting. You need to have like other things going on in your life, right? You need it's not healthy and it's not interesting, and it's not so you like you need to have some other things that you're pursuing or or interested in. I don't know. Yeah, it's good. Um

Building A Retreat And Global Podcast

Andy Heise 21:31

speaking of other things, uh you uh Sebastian, you created the third coast, uh co-created the third come third coast trombone retreat, as you just mentioned with your rolls off the Nick and No, that that's just me. I don't hear the word trombone very often.

John Sebastian Vera 21:47

Yeah. It's in the intro of every one of my podcasts, and it's in the intro of every one of my podcasts, and I stumble over it if I all the time. It's too many Ts.

Andy Heise 21:57

Third coast trombone retreat. Yes. Uh so you co-created the Third Coast Trombone Retreat and you co-host the Trombone Retreat podcast. And those are both with your with your uh friend colleague Nick. Um and as we're talking about sort of this networking thing, it's it's an interesting dynamic to be. So for example, with the with the trombone um third coast trombone retreat, um you created that, and but it's also sort of a networking type of thing. Is it is it different when you're the creator of the place that's convening the people versus being the one who's so sort of showing up um to participate?

John Sebastian Vera 22:34

That's a that's a really interesting question. Um and it it's one of those things that kind of built into building relationships is you know what you're giving people at the end of the day. And when you focus more on like what you're offering, what you're giving, you know, that just tends to come back. And so yeah, it gives me, you know, the the trombone retreat is our is our baby. We started it, gosh, 13 years ago on like the fifth drink at a bar. Um we should start our own festival, it's gonna be different. And um, and it is, it's this unique thing that is our baby and it's special and it works and it's impactful and uh very meaningful. Where I have to keep it in this like little box during the year because it's like if I if I thought about it all the time, I'd probably cry because it's just like it's it's been this really special, beautiful thing. Um, and yeah, you have to balance, um, especially when you know you're bringing in guest artists, uh, that sure these relationships have really helped my career. Um, you know, having guests on podcast and and getting to know people and them getting to know me and getting having guest artists come to the retreat and we get to play together and they're like, Oh, you should come play in my orchestra sometime, like stuff like that. Um, but you do have to balance, uh, especially when you're bringing in big name guest artists. We intentionally have a system where we try to just rotate every year. Um that way we're insulated from someone being like, Why didn't you invite me back? You invited that other guy back. Like, did do you not think I sound good now? You just subtly are upset at this person. Right. Um, and it's not a perfect system, but we communicate that, and I think it it works. Um, we might run out of trombonus at some point. There's there's sure a lot of them. Um, but it we we protect ourselves that way, and uh we probably God, we have so many people to interview on the podcast, you can never run out, but yeah, yeah.

Nick Petrella 24:40

My mind's wandering. And we have Bobby sticks great trombonus from Midlothian, Texas.

John Sebastian Vera 24:47

So uh you learned about the spit valve this week. Oh my god. What are your insights? Yeah, that's why. I mean, the cool the the absolute coolest thing is, you know, the podcast, how it you get these emails from like New Zealand and stuff. Right. When you upload it at midnight and you wake up, it's been listened to in all these different countries. And these people that are in like I just like to describe art deserts, you know, like you can be this amazing trombonist at a university in the middle of like Idaho or something, um, no shade to Idaho. But you know, maybe you don't get to have these conversations and and get these insights from certain people. And um, especially during the pandemic when we felt so isolated, like I would get emails every morning from people being like, Thank you so much, and this has you know helped us and and and feel connected, and it's it's a real special thing.

Andy Heise 25:42

Yeah. Yeah. So what I hear you saying is like as the organizer of these types of things or as the founder creator of these things, it's yes, it's certainly um, you know, a continuation of your own professional networking and connection making, but also it's a way to to to share that to share what you have with with up and coming or other people that don't maybe have the same type of access that you do.

John Sebastian Vera 26:07

Absolutely.

Nick Petrella 26:07

Yeah, absolutely.

Designing A Signature Mouthpiece

Nick Petrella 26:10

So, Sebastian, in addition to performing and teaching, you designed a mouthpiece. And I don't know when when was that? A couple years ago or could have been 20 years ago.

John Sebastian Vera 26:18

I don't know. Golly, I think that was about three years ago at this point. The design process took a while and then it came out. So it's like a whole thing.

Nick Petrella 26:26

So why don't you walk us through that process for those who have similar goals of designing instruments or or accessories?

John Sebastian Vera 26:33

Cool. So I I I I flew to Nepal and I I climbed a mountain and I I depict this rare flower, and then I got to the top, and this guy told me all the secrets. Um they usually begin that way. No, you know, it's like, you know, I I listened to your your interview with uh Miriam, and I really liked what what she said about, you know, you think like with a book, someone's just gonna approach you, you know, and like here, you're you have great insights, write this book. And with the mouthpiece, it was kind of a a marriage of opportunity and um something I was always interested in. Uh I one of my one of my really good friends, uh Mark Houghton, he's he's third horn in the Pittsburgh Symphony, one of the best horn players in the world, also has this company in Texas called Houghton Horns. It's this huge retailer that focuses on brass instruments, they ship all over the world. But they wanted to start doing more of their custom things. They want they they've been this established horn brand for for a long time, like the horn brand, and they wanted to build out more of their trombone things. So they they started you know advertising on the podcast, and they they started creating their own like signature line of horn mouthpieces, and it went really well. And you know, through a lot of conversations, I was just like, hey, if the opportunity ever came up, I would be really interested in designing something. And um we have a vehicle to tell people about it, which is you know the podcast and social media, and and that's uh, but we wanted to do something, I wanted to do something different. I I saw a lot of mouthpieces uh occupying a certain area in the trombone world, like heavy and you know, uh big, and I can play really loud and uh you know good, blah blah blah. And so I saw this area that that, you know, and there's no mouthpiece for everyone, but I saw this giant area of color and resonance and response, and maybe a little lighter and a classic tenor sound, which what the trombone was designed for, um, but fitting with a modern orchestra. So we kind of went in this other direction, and it's what I wanted. Um, and that's the it's the scary thing. You you design this thing, uh, we we do it through uh a company in Kentucky that manufactures a lot of different mouthpieces, but it's cool they have this technology where they can scan yours and then you can you design it. I don't know anything about the manufacturing process. I was the design and the sound person. We we talked about what we wanted to look like, we wanted to look unique. It's an opportunity for design and to look really cool and be striking where someone can look at it and know what it is immediately or want to ask what it is. Yeah.

Nick Petrella 29:27

So I have some businessy type questions for you in case other people are interested. So you it's OEM, so a manufacturer makes it for Houghton.

Andy Heise 29:35

Yes.

Nick Petrella 29:36

And is the arrangement set up? And if you don't want to talk about it, you don't have to, but is the arrangement set up that you get a royalty on it, or you buy it and sell it to Houghton? Because there are a couple different ways you can set that up.

John Sebastian Vera 29:47

Correct. Um, so they they have a a long-standing partnership with um Pickett, Pickett mouthpieces, they're brilliant. Um, and Peter Pickett is is one of my mentors and just an amazing creative person. Um, and basically they design a big batch. Um, and they actually I think it's a it's a good process where we pay them after we sell them actually. Um, I believe is is the way they do it. But I get uh a royalty, yeah. That's um I didn't have to pay for any of the upfront things. Um yeah, that's that's expensive. Yeah. Yeah, so that's why I I feel like a real responsibility to be like the face of it and in and marketing it and sharing it. Um because they did all the upfront work. Um but they they sell well in the which is very cool because when you design something and put your name on it, it is very scary because if no one likes it or no one buys it, it's like you know, everyone will know it, or at least it'll feel like a giant failure. But the people that like it love it, yep. Um, which is really neat. And you know, I'm not the most famous tromboneist in the world. There, there's a lot of people that know who I am in the trombone world, but I'm not like this guy who's principal trombone in the New York Philharmonic or something, where just that title alone in his history, for example, they'll want to buy it, you know. So I was like, let's spend two years really doing the research. I'm sending it out to every friend and every place I could imagine getting feedback so that we get this right and make it really special.

Nick Petrella 31:29

And it doesn't matter who you are. If the product's good or accessory or instrument, it's it's gonna sell. And the market will tell you because if it if it doesn't, nobody will will hear of it again.

John Sebastian Vera 31:39

Yeah, yeah.

Nick Petrella 31:40

So it's so it's a good sign that it's still out there, right?

John Sebastian Vera 31:43

Yeah, it's really cool. It's being played all over the world, um, which is really cool. People send in pictures all the time. Um, I want to expand, you know, I want to do more and more and more, but you know, unless you want to buy your own CNC machine, yeah, which would be really fun, but you know, brand new ones like a hundred grand, you know. It's like um it'd be really cool if you just wanted to like buy one or buy a used one, move to Montana and just like pump out mouthpieces. That could be cool. Um, takes a big learning curve. So there are advantages to the OEM, you know, to to to making it work that way. And for me, it's it's just this nice little creative passive income project. Yeah, especially since since they're letting you basically sell it on consignment or send it in on consignment.

Nick Petrella 32:28

Yeah, that's awesome.

Final Takeaways And How To Support

Announcer 32:32

Thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please subscribe. Visit arts entrepreneurship podcast.com to learn more about our guest and how you can help support artists, the arts, and this podcast.