#392: John Sebastian Vera (Trombonist) (pt. 2 of 2)

This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with John Sebastian Vera.  He’s the Principal Trombonist of the Pittsburgh Opera; Head of Brass & Percussion and lecturer of music entrepreneurship at the Cleveland Institute of Music; adjunct Professor of Trombone at Duquesne University; Co-Founder of the Third Coast Trombone Retreat; and co-host of the Trombone Retreat podcast listened to in over 130 countries.

His portfolio career also includes performing with many orchestras, being an artist for Thein Instruments, and he’s the designer of the JSV signature trombone mouthpiece sold through Houghton Horns.

Make sure you check out Sebastian's interview to hear his 360-degree approach to the music business! 

Transcript

Sponsor Message From Volkweins Music

Nick Petrella 0:00

Hi, Nick Petrella here. This episode is sponsored by Volkwines Music, a full service shop that's been meeting the musical needs of musicians for over one hundred and thirty-five years. They offer a huge selection of instruments, accessories, music, and more. They also have an unmatched instrument repair department with some of the most experienced technicians in the business. For years they've serviced my personal and school instruments, and their attention to detail is why I and professional musicians from around the globe trust Volkwines to service their gear. Head over to Volkwinesmusic.com to see what they can do for you. That's V-O-L-K-W-E-I-N-S-Music.com, helping people discover music since eighteen eighty-eight.

Welcome And Meet Sebastian Vera

Announcer 1:04

Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast, Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion, and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent, or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts, Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.

Andy Heise 1:46

Hi, Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise.

Nick Petrella 1:50

And I'm Nick Petrella. Joining us today is Sebastian Vera. He's the principal trombonist of the Pittsburgh Opera, head of brass and percussion, and lecturer of music entrepreneurship at the Cleveland Institute of Music, and adjunct professor of trombone at Duquesne University. He's also the co-founder of the Third Coast Trombone Retreat, an elite pre-professional program, and co-host of the Trombone Retreat podcast, listened to in over 130 countries. In addition to the Pittsburgh Opera, Sebastian has performed with many orchestras including Dallas, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra. His portfolio career includes being an artist for Tyne Instruments, and he's the designer of the JSV signature trombone mouthpiece sold through Houton Horns. Make sure you check out Sebastian's socials in the show notes to keep tabs on all of his activities.

Mouthpiece Pricing And Value Perception

John Sebastian Vera 2:56

That's a good question. And that's why there's there can be a cap to this kind of thing. Maybe this is a bad question to ask you. No, it's well. This could be this could be a lot. This could be a while, right? See the this the the sale the salesman in me is like, hey, trombonists are so obsessed with finding that one mouthpiece that does everything. And you talk to any good trumpet player, they have like six and they have them like on the stand in concerts. And I'm like, hey, if this one mouthpiece is like just ridiculously amazing in this area of your range, wouldn't that be nice? And then you have this other one. Um, so more and more trombonists start there's mouthpiece heads where they just have to buy everything. There's some people like I was the person that had one mouthpiece since my sophomore year in college. Yeah. Until I switched to this one. Um so it's it's one of those things. So that's why I think there's an argument for raising prices. If you're buying this one thing that's gonna last for 20 years, right, right, you know, 260 bucks, that's a bargain. Yeah, you know, I think you could argue that you could sell it for more.

Nick Petrella 4:05

So well, that that's exactly the way I used to sell things. Because you know, what's the price of a mouth? What's the price of a piano? Right? If you buy something, you take care of it, it's gonna last you a lifetime. Uh, you would see instruments from orchestras around the world that are over a hundred years old.

Andy Heise 4:19

Right.

John Sebastian Vera 4:20

Right?

Nick Petrella 4:20

So if it's good, it's good quality, you buy it once.

John Sebastian Vera 4:24

And I'd be interested to hear what you would think, because at the Texas Music Educators Association conference, you know, which is you know with 35,000 people, biggest thing, that's where we do the majority of our selling. And we came out with a a new model this year that was just like the same mouthpiece without all the fancy custom finishing, and it was like $50 cheaper. We raised the price of the the signature one, and by raising the price, they sold way more. Yeah. Snob appeal. Because the the value or yeah, pardon? Yep, snob appeal. Snob appeal.

Nick Petrella 4:59

It's an actual, yeah, yeah, absolutely. We can talk about that.

John Sebastian Vera 5:03

Yeah. Sure, sure. Yeah, I thought by having the cheaper version, people would want to buy more of that. But actually, yeah, by having it, maybe it didn't sell as well, but by having it, it sold made the more expensive ones sell better, which I thought was fascinating. Yeah, it's it's positioning. Yeah, love to talk with you about that. Yeah, yeah.

Andy Heise 5:20

Alrighty. So you talked about the mouthpiece as sort of a scratch your own itch sort of solution, but also recognizing that maybe other people might might want it too. Uh, was there a point in time where you sort of where you're like, okay, this thing is starting, this is this is working, this is something that people actually want.

John Sebastian Vera 5:38

Yeah. I mean, you know, seeing it being played and like the assistant principal in the Royal Philharmonics playing it, and you see all these professors start playing it, and like the kid who's gotten first chair, three different kids have gotten first chair, all state in Texas last three years play it. And when a kid a high school kid plays it and gets first chair, all the other high school kids want to buy it. Um, it's just it's the best feeling again. It's that whole like it's your baby, so you literally see someone having success with it and performing with it. That's the best feeling ever. And I just I love how it sounds. And when you get compliments and see people winning competitions and auditions on it, like that's you're like, okay, the imposter syndrome just slowly starts to get less and less and less. Yeah. Um, but you constantly got to be innovating.

Andy Heise 6:27

Yeah, and you said it's distinct. You can you can look at a trombone player and tell that they're using it. What what makes it distinct?

Design, Visibility, And Product Recognition

John Sebastian Vera 6:34

Um, yeah, if you look at the picture of it, it's I thought there was an opportunity to to, you know, as David Cutler says, be purple. Um most mouthpieces look the same. And Mark Houghton and I both are really into design. Um like, how can we make this look unique and and special? And we have a certain finish on it that it makes it kind of look frosted and it glows and the and the shank doesn't have plating on it. So it's it's when you see it, people know what it is.

Nick Petrella 7:04

Yeah, yeah. And the media impressions that you could get that. So if you're doing a Fourth of July special, a Memorial Day, when they zoom in, people who know will will recognize that, and it's confirmation that if they go to buy that, these other people do it. So it's it's that's huge.

John Sebastian Vera 7:20

Yeah, like then that big Netflix roast of Kevin Hart that just happened, one of the trombone players was playing it on there. I'm just like nice. Yeah, go. Yeah.

Nick Petrella 7:29

That's so cool. Can't pay for that product placement.

John Sebastian Vera 7:32

No, yeah. I mean, I don't know how many people even would recognize that besides me, but it's like it's super cool.

Nick Petrella 7:38

Yeah, but to the point, trombonists, because they you know, there have been studies, a lot of ads, if you take a look at watches or something like that, they look at those ads to confirm what they purchased. So, anyway. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Teaching Entrepreneurship As A Mindset

Nick Petrella 7:51

So you teach music entrepreneurship courses at CIM, and I'm wondering what are common misconceptions that students have about the music business?

John Sebastian Vera 8:01

What do you mean, misconception? You mean students don't just buy in right away entrepreneurship? Yeah. Well, you know, uh as I mentioned at CIM, it's you know, we have like a little over 300 students. They're extremely talented, it's it's difficult to get in. They're very driven and focused on most of them, either like a solo career, chamber music career, or a lot of them orchestral. Um, and my job, I'm realizing, is I think the biggest thing to tackle is mindset, right? Just opening their minds to how happy they could be in all these possibilities. Um, because a lot of them look at entrepreneurship or entrepreneurial thinking as this either-or thing. Yeah, you know, it's what that's the that's what I'll have to do if if I don't win an audition or this doesn't work out. And so that's why I want to bring in speakers and I want to bring in people that you know have these big jobs, but also want to do other things. Um, for it could be for income, but it could also just be for their their self, um, for their creativity, um, to feed, feed their their soul and their artistic instincts. Um, and so the either-or thing is the bit the the biggest thing to tackle, um, and to to open their minds to the these amazing skill sets you're developing by being a self-starter and working hard and challenging yourself and being able to work with others at a high level and think creatively and problem solve, they will make you such a juggernaut with any of these entrepreneurial pursuits. And then I I I want them to strip down and realize like, why are we doing this in the first place? Why are you a musician in the first place? What's the point of it? Is the point of it to win a job, or is it the point of it to make an impact on society? Okay, we can make an impact on society in a lot of ways, right? Um, what do you actually need to be happy and successful? Oh, you only need okay, these things, okay. And then you start to get them to like open up the tunnel vision a little bit and be like, what with my skill set can I make, you know, social change um or impact in a small community? Um so that's that's the biggest thing. And you know, you know how it is. It's like you have some students that are just kind of sort of into it, and then you have just a couple every now and then that are just buy-in immediately, and it's the greatest thing.

Andy Heise 10:36

Yeah, right. Does teaching entrepreneurship change how you approach your own career?

Teaching Reveals Career Blind Spots

John Sebastian Vera 10:45

I mean, it it highlights everything that I'm not doing enough of, right? Every time you're around all these amazing.

Andy Heise 10:51

Do as I say, not as I do. Yeah, right.

John Sebastian Vera 10:53

Exactly. You read these amazing books and you hang out with these other people in the in this area, and there's just so much opportunity and it's it's so much sweat equity. It's like yeah, yeah, it's really you get rewarded for effort and and realizing ways you could up your game, because there's always a million things I could do more with my businesses. Um, and you have to like put it in perspective sometimes or maybe reprioritize how you're allocating your time.

Andy Heise 11:23

Yeah, yeah.

John Sebastian Vera 11:24

Um, but that that's the biggest thing. I mean, like anything, if you ever, you know, if you want to learn something, have to teach a class about it. If you have to, if you have to know how to communicate to others about certain subjects, you're gonna that's the only way to like truly master it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Endorsements Are Mutual Value Deals

Nick Petrella 11:43

Let's uh let's change gears and talk a little bit about endorsements. Uh, just because that topic is is also one that that comes up quite a bit when I speak with young professionals. So you're currently an artist for Tyne Instruments, and they're out of Germany. Um, how did you get connected? And what did you learn about endorsements that you didn't way back when you were in school?

John Sebastian Vera 12:04

Great question. So again, relationships. Um I I, you know, first of all, they they were always viewed as these like insanely special, they're like the Lamborghini of trombones, they're the most expensive ones. And I'm just like, you know, I don't know. I don't know how that would ever work out. Um, but then I I had a a good friend that became an artist, and he connected me with the creator and while he was in town one day, and they they fit me for an instrument, and I loved it. And since I had this good relationship with one of his artists, he's like, you know, take that trombone for a year and just let me know. Let me know what you think. Let's have a let's have a talk. And the the biggest thing I've learned in that I try to tell people when, you know, because every musician wants to have an endorsement or get free stuff. They they a lot of musicians think that, oh, if I'm just really good, people are gonna give me stuff, or that I deserve this thing because I won this audition one day, or I'm really good. Um, but I encourage people to think about first of all, these people are running businesses, um, often fragile businesses that run on slim margins. So, what are you doing for them? What is the mutual value? How are you helping them? Um, when you can get into that mindset of like, you know, hey, I have I have this podcast, and I would be happy to tell you, hey, of all these solo engagements, and I teach at this university and I have this retreat that influences a lot of young players, like that's when you're creating value that you can give to someone else, and that's when good things happen. Um, people don't want to invest a lot of you know expensive uh equipment and time in you unless you're actually doing something for them. So, again, having a mindset of what can I do for other people? So, yeah, it just developed a relationship. I ended up flying to Germany to visit the factory, which was so cool. And they have like an apartment there that I could stay at and I could spend like all hours of the night just playing these incredible instruments of this company that's been around for like a hundred years. Um, so it's a special relationship, and when you feel valued, um, and when you feel like they're on your team and you're on their team, it's just the best feeling to have that sort of relationship. Yeah, that's a great answer. That's an excellent answer.

Andy Heise 14:29

So

Leaving A Stable Gig For Growth

Andy Heise 14:30

on the on the podcast, uh we often talk about starting things uh with entrepreneurship. That's that's frequently what what you know what we're talking about is people uh creating and starting new things. But we rarely talk about winding things down or stopping doing something. Um and recently you um you were with the River City Brass Band for for about a decade, uh, but you're no longer playing in that ensemble. So what is what's what's that uh chapter like when you leave um an activity or an ensemble or something?

John Sebastian Vera 15:02

It it's it's a scary thing, first of all, because again, as a musician, you're wired to say yes to everything, and you know how rare it is to first of all win an audition, get tenure, have consistent work. And you know, River City Brass Band is it's not it. Some people may not be familiar with it, but it's technically their line is the only full-time brass band in the U.S. I mean, it's it's one of the groups in the union. Um, they work a lot, they travel around. Um, the musicians are incredible. Um, it's this unique thing. I didn't know anything about it before I moved to Pittsburgh. Um, and it's in town too, you know. So that was one of those core stable things I was talking about as part of the portfolio. Um, and it's scary to make a decision like that because it's a risk. Um and I thought about it for a long time. Um, and it's it's one of those things that someone told me uh someone told me the other day some advice that I really liked, and he said, he said, you know, life has seasons. And I I really appreciated that. And especially as a musician, you spend half your life pursuing this thing, and then you finally get it, and then I started to see like my years would be the same. I have the same schedule and the cyclical nature, which can be a good thing, but also it kind of scared me because I saw people like 30 years older than me that have been doing the exact same thing for the same amount of time. And I'm just like, I don't know, I want to keep evolving, I want to keep doing things. So, you know, it it was just time, you know. I I wanted a new challenge, I wanted something new. I I miss my colleagues, but it just felt right for other opportunities I was getting.

Andy Heise 16:53

Yeah.

John Sebastian Vera 16:54

And what I found through the process is sometimes you gotta kind of jump off the cliff a little bit. And by doing that, it energizes you to pursue other things. And even if you don't know exactly what you're gonna do, um, everything's worked out fine. Um, and I've gotten all these opportunities. Maybe you're more aware, maybe you have a little more energy to pursue it. Having feel feeling feeling the fear a little bit can be healthy. Um, but you know, I was really scared like of bottom line stuff, and then you know, you get your tax returns, and it's the exact same every year as it was when you left that job because you just filled it in with other stuff, yeah. With maybe stuff that served me a little bit more. Um, so being unafraid to to make a dynamic change, even if you don't know the answer, sometimes if you're really if if your heart's pointing in that direction, it could be the the best thing you've ever done.

Andy Heise 17:53

Yeah.

unknown 17:54

Yeah.

Andy Heise 17:54

I like that framing around uh the fear maybe makes you a little more alert or the maybe fear, you you you called it fear, but maybe uncertainty would be a more general term for it. Makes you a little more alert to other opportunities. Absolutely.

AI Could Boost Live Performance

Nick Petrella 18:11

So got to ask the obligatory AI question. How do you think AI is gonna impact performing musicians and their ancillary activities, such as composing, arranging, designing, like like you do with the mouthpiece?

John Sebastian Vera 18:25

Well, you know, gosh, we could do the whole podcast on AI, of course. Um, I think with every technological innovation, there's a million great things and a million things people are scared about, and there's there's often a lot of people that are on either end of it. Um I take a moderate take, you know, there are gonna be things that can be scary and negative from it, and the the social things and maybe diluting some certain artistic things, but if you use it in the right way, it's just gonna be this insane tool um that will enable you to do more and do more of your your creative pursuits. I've I think this is gonna be one of the best things for live performance. Um, the more and more that people are unsure of what's real or not, um, and you see this with young people already, these articles coming out about how young people are craving experiences more than ever in real life. Um, they're drinking less, um, they want to go to weird events and hear live music, which is the thing that we can do that you can't, you know, change. Um, you know, you're gonna see resistance uh in a lot of ways, but yeah, with you know, composition, if it can take away the busy work and not take away the the soul of it, that's the sweet spot, I think. But the exciting thing for me is getting this whole new audience that maybe craves that. I don't know how soon that's gonna happen, but you're starting to see ripples of it.

Nick Petrella 20:09

Yeah, no, I share the same same opinion. I think it's gonna be good for performing.

Andy Heise 20:13

Yeah.

unknown 20:15

Yeah.

Andy Heise 20:15

And um, you know, the the current um oh, you know, we're the time of this recording, we're just getting past sort of graduation season, and there's several examples of um speakers at graduations that were getting booed for making statements about you know, AI is the next industrial revolution or whatever. Um and the boos were coming from from the students. So I'm curious to hear uh what what you're seeing from students around AI and um you know how how do you respond to that as a as a teacher?

Helping Students Use AI Well

John Sebastian Vera 20:50

Yeah, the good question. I don't think it's a monolith. I mean, you see some people super into it. You see I, you know, and we talked about in the that awesome presentation at the conference. I think a lot of there's just a lot of misunderstanding around it still. Yeah, and there's AI is such a broad term for a million different processes and and things that can help you. Um, but again, if if it can take away the the busy work, I mean, you know, I think academia is going to be slow to adapt to how are we monitoring how people write, and and you know, we have a lot of international students at my school, so it's like you ask them to give a presentation and they they just read something. Um and that that's that's the challenge. It's so how can we get them first of all, first of all, it's not going away. You know, people freaked out about the internet, people freaked out about the cell phone. Yeah, um, it's it's not going away. So how can we encourage them to use it in a healthy way that feeds their soul and keeps them a happy social person and still has their Voice and how can we use this to amplify what they want to do?

Nick Petrella 22:04

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Retirement Planning For Portfolio Musicians

Nick Petrella 22:06

So before Andy kicks off the final three questions, um, I want to talk a little bit about financial preparedness for musicians. So I've I've been around the music industry for 30 years and know that finances can be challenging for performers. How are you and your colleagues planning for retirement? And what should those who want to perform for a living do to ensure that they are financially secure?

John Sebastian Vera 22:32

That's a great question. Um, I think someone in a portfolio career needs to educate themselves, maybe much more so than somebody else, because you know, the majority of uh full-time jobs will have some sort of retirement, something baked in a full-time professor versus an adjunct professor. Um so, you know, under spending time reading and filling these holes that aren't normally in music school, which you know I'm trying to change.

Andy Heise 23:05

Of course.

John Sebastian Vera 23:06

Um I think one one of my good friends, he's now the Horn Professor Oberlin, he's like, he's like, there's something, something about being right above the poverty line that makes you just a little, you know, there's not too much room to fall. So it's like there's a comfort there. But it's it's it's important to to that was back in grad school in New York when I lived in this like tiny apartment with no windows. Um, but spending time, there's resources available. Um, if you're lucky enough to have a mentor in your life or or an older person that, you know, an uncle that is really good with finances, ask them as many questions as you can. Um, there's a million books and resources. Um, every job you have usually has some sort of opportunity to to take some of your salary or your income and put it in something safe. Having um something safe that just takes out of your account, even if it's just like 10 bucks a month when you're in your 20s, that compounding interest, man, that's an exciting thing. That's why we have a personal finance talk at our our trombone retreat. Um, that's the core part. And we have this this advisor who specializes in talking to musicians, he's amazing. Scott Stratton, um, finance from for musicians. Um, and yeah, it's it's a it's a thing I've had to to know in a lot of growing up. I think a mindset issue is sometimes you just don't think, oh, I'm a musician, I'm not, I can't think about retirement. I'm just trying to pay my mortgage. There's no way I'm able to think that. So I think a lot of it's a mindset thing to just, hey, you can save, and they're and there's smart people, and you don't need to gamble, you don't need to play the stock market, you can do safe things that all the smart rich people tend to just do the boring safe stuff, you know.

Andy Heise 24:56

Yeah, that's right.

Advice For Art Entrepreneurs: Start Now

Andy Heise 25:00

Sebastian, we've reached the point of the interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions. And the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an art entrepreneur?

John Sebastian Vera 25:12

Um I I would say the biggest thing is to not being the single biggest impactful thing for me is just not being afraid to fail. Um, most people wait until they know every single thing about something to even start and they think they need to be perfect, especially the way in my world, classical musicians are wired to be perfect all the time and never make a mistake. The idea of doing a creative project when, oh, I I didn't major in this subject, or I'm not an expert in this, or I don't know exactly how this will work, um, stops them. But the real truth is by starting and failing and figuring it out along the way is where you do the most learning. And it's really the only way to make anything happen. So every major project that's been a success in my life, I had no idea what I was doing when I started. I didn't, I had never played an opera before before winning the Pittsburgh Opera. I didn't know what a brass band was. I barely did any chamber music in school. I never designed a mouthpiece before. I had no idea how to edit audio for a podcast or conduct a podcast. I had no idea how to start a festival. Um, but you start and and you make mistakes, but you have the vision of what you're trying to achieve and why you're trying to do it. And then it becomes fun. Um, so the biggest advice would to be get rid of the emotion of, you know, if something doesn't go go well, you know, I always say, like, for a young person, if a test doesn't go well, if an audition doesn't go well, if a project doesn't go well, you have you have two choices in that moment. You can, you know, go buy some ice cream and and go watch Netflix for two weeks um and feel sorry for yourself, or you can be objective about it and not take it personally and not let it define your identity on for one thing you did once um and look at it objectively. Like, okay, did I prepare as well as I could have? Could I have researched this in a different way? Could I have practiced different? Could I have gotten more feedback? Um looking at it like a scientist, and you know, it's it's not bad to feel sad if something doesn't work out, like feel that, but don't dwell on it. Um, and the most successful people I've been around are not people that have just gotten it right on every single thing they've ever done. It's the ones that are excited when something doesn't go well because they just learned a bunch. Sure. Yeah.

Making The Arts More Audience-Focused

Nick Petrella 27:46

What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible in reaching the widest possible audience?

John Sebastian Vera 27:53

Hmm. You know, I'll answer this in a slightly different way. I would argue arts are more accessible than they've ever been in the history of the world. Um do all arts have to be for everyone? No. I think we could do a better job of thinking about what we're giving people. Um, I think people will want to pursue things and want to experience art when we think more about what we're giving to them versus I created this amazing thing and I'm special and I've worked really hard at it, and this is really the greatest thing you'll ever hear, and you should just want to see it. Um but with technology and video and podcasts, I think we could do more different venues and perform go to people where they're at. We could always do more of that. But every organization I'm I'm with now makes an effort to be accessible, whether it be prices of tickets or student concerts, um playing music of different backgrounds and things like that.

Andy Heise 29:02

Great. Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've been given?

Ready, Fire, Aim And Farewell

John Sebastian Vera 29:10

My favorite uh line, and it's kind of related to your first question, from the late Lancelok, who was um who we lost tragically early, but uh he was an amazing uh musician, but also uh taught entrepreneurship at Carnegie Mellon University, arts entrepreneurship. Um, one of my favorite things he always said in talks was ready, fire aim, which is you know, just start. If you have an idea, even if you don't know how it works, just start and you learn as you go. Um, that's the single biggest thing that's applied to my life. And and it makes you excited to try, even if it's not a business venture, it makes you excited to try something new. Like this month, I've decided to finally like get serious about working out in diet and not just thinking about like any project you want to do, um, it makes you excited to just try.

Nick Petrella 30:07

Yeah, that's great. It's a great way to end. And uh just love hearing your approach to music business. And really, it's a testament that musicians should look at all aspects of their art to find opportunities. Thanks for coming on with us.

John Sebastian Vera 30:21

Absolutely. It's nice hanging out with you guys. Thanks, Sebastian.

Announcer 30:28

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